Mike, I think we have a very similar approach to things. Although I sure would like to be able to keep something like a Hobie FX-one at WRSC for toodling around too. However, since I'm likely not going to get a boat before relocating to Senegal in August, that's really a non-issue right now. I wonder if Hobie makes an F-16? Maybe it will by the time I get back Stateside in 2012.



The way it's pouring rain here, Chris, I can't imagine Lansing being much worse than here. Eh? Definitely agree about the laugh, though. If we've got to be stuck on land reading Catsailor, it should at least be entertaining.

Hi Herbie/Mike,

Thank you for the nice post .... I do like the A-Cats, I know I can't afford one but I'm following Tony's progress on his project w/ keen interest. Maybe I will build one ....

I'm sorry I was in such a touchy mood on Saturday ... I was "sandbagged" into working Saturday afternoon instead of being able to go to Gunpowder .... (unfinished Friday job)

I hope you will be coming to RHYC on June 19, 20-21st. Would a draft 16oz Yuengling Lager be acceptable????

Harry

It is all a question of how much money one can spend or is willing to spend. However, I've become convinced that the most attractive tree of beach cat designs is something like depicted in the attached picture.

Of course there are "specials" like the Nacra 20 for the Tybee racing along the US eastern coast or the Hobie 16 for really cheap secondhanders or low tech fun filled racing on provided boats or indeed the SL16 as the youth boat. But neither of these has a very large footprint in the beach catamaran scene of tomorrow. At least for Europe the Nacra 500 seems to be speeding ahead and looks to overtake the H16's and SL16's in the various roles despite other plans by ISAF. Of course the H16's racing will always remain till the last "old salt" who grew up on them has died, but to give a counterexample. I think there are less then 10 H16's at my club of about 100 boats, and only 1 appears to be used for sailing. In the last 3 years the new Nacra 500's have eclipsed the H16's at my club and they are actively sailed. The new sail design by Peter Vink is a big improvement and these 500's are great little boats and take a spi upgrade well (unlike the H16's or Dart 18's).

The Nacra 500 (or predessor nacra 5.0) will handle any family use really well and is still viable for solo sailing by an adult. The hullshape is really well designed and handles chop really well. The modern rig is miles and miles ahead of even the newest H16's. And that links it up very well with any upgrade to say the F18's, F16's or the A-cats. If you are going to by a new boat then the Nacra 500 should be on top of your list. I really mean that.

The rest of the plot is pretty self explanatory. Formula 18 is THE class in beach cat sailing at the moment and looksto remain so for many years to come. The A-cat is the undisputed option for singlehanded racing while the F16 combines both into one single and less expensive package and is growing into viable fleets the world over.

The path to Olympic racing (used to be the tornado) is also obvious if you are planning into that direction. The best preparation for that run through the F18 class.

Of course, switching between the three "main" classes F18, F16 and A-cat is seen regulary depending on personal circumstances like local fleets or a change in family make-up. All three seem close enough in comparison to make switching easy.

The pricing/costs associated with these classes also runs from left to right with respect to getting more expensive.

And of course any cat design you can buy cheap and learn the ropes on is a good substitute for getting started on the Nacra 500 or Nacra 5.0

I hope this helps,

Wouter

Ohh, I forgot.

Of course neither Nacra or Hobie make a F16. But that is their bad call as they are trying to play the old game of strict Single Manufacturer One Design classes when the cat scene has changed profoundly in that respect.

HOWEVER !

Hobie does have a design that compares very closely to the new Nacra 500 and that is the Hobie MAX.

Hobie max specs on Hobie Europe website

A few Hobie MAX pictures


I really don't understand however why Hobie Corp is not running full force with that model.

It is simply the best model they have after their F18 designs in the way of design and usefulness, where of course the H16 is still 1st in popularity.


The specs of the MAX are almost identical to the Nacra 500 and these two boats could easily form a Formula class of their own. Sort of like a "tuned-down and cheaper F16 class" for recreational sailing oriented crews. But also one that is really viable for youth sailing as well, unlike the current ISAF selection that is the SL16 design. Although the SL16 share the same specs and could become part of this formula class as well.


Hobie MAX

Length 4.91 mtr
Beam 2.50 mtr
weight 150 kg
Mainsail 13.76 sq. mtr. x 7.44 mtr
Jib 3.66 sq. mtr x 5.08 mtr
Spi 15.0 sq. mtr


Nacra 500 ( To see pics of the Nacra 500 )

Length 5.05 mtr
Beam 2.44 mtr
weight 150 kg
Mainsail 13.83 sq. mtr. x 7.74 mtr
Jib 3.83 sq. mtr x 5.06 mtr
Spi 17.0 sq. mtr


Sirena SL16

Length 4.80 mtr
Beam 2.35 mtr
weight 152 kg
Mainsail 13.80 sq. mtr. x 7.40 mtr
Jib 3.80 sq. mtr x 5.30 mtr
Spi 17.0 sq. mtr



There is one big drawback of the Hobie MAX however. Hobie cat seem to ignore it to death and has priced it beyond the F16's and Nacra 500's ! Which is bloody rediculous if you ask me. There is no reason why the MAX must be at least a 1000 Euro's more expensive then a thorough bred F16. Even the most expensive (upgraded) Nacra 500 is at this time something like 3000 Euro's cheaper then the (standard) MAX, which is killing for the MAX in the current cat market.

But if you really want to have a Hobie product then maybe asking for the MAX at your local dealor may be a wise decision.

Wouter

Wow... The world spins in circles.

Right before the crash of cat sailing in the US... The major boat show, The Annapolis boat show had displays from Prindle 16 Nacra 5.0 Dart 18, Hobie 16 and the Isotope. I went with the intention of buying a Prindle 16, Since every rental Hobie 16 that I had sailed had so much weather helm that I was convinced that is how they normally sailed. Dart offered sailing demo's and nobody else was doing that.. (and I thought it was the best looking boat.) So... off to sandy point park for the demo... The Nacra dealer (now a good friend) shows up with a 5.0 to poach the prospects from the Dart dealer. The Dart dealer is a little guy with short man's complex and he winds up screaming at the Nacra guy, (6 foot and 200 lbs). He was poaching his leads and to the customers, he was making the point that the 5.0 violated his patent on the skeg design and the boat would be soon out of production... Oh and the Dart was the ISAF approved boat.. (who the hell were they?) yada yada yada... I wound up sailing both boats and bought the Dart... Bottom line... it was lighter then the Nacra 5.0 and seemed more responsive to a non sailor. Both boats never caught on and the Nacra 5.0 proved to be a much faster boat then it's 16 foot length would have you believe.

It's fascinating that the 5.0 is now Nacra's access to performance boats. In the US... the only boat that really survives in the US market today is the Hobie 16... We see a couple of new ones in the hands of the racers every year. We had one German guy get a 5.0 and sail it for a few years and then take it back to Germany.

Africat,

I would decide if you want to pay for a club to keep the mast up or trailer from the back yard.

The thing to keep in mind is that you need to have a good time when there is no wind... So, a pleasant club to hang out on the beach on those days is as important as the boat to sail when you have wind. The WAF is usually dependent on the bathroom facilities.... port a potties don't cut it.

If the WRSA fleet boats don't grab you right now... There are other marinas which don't race but allow you to put any boat you want on the beach. (I keep my boat at Podickory Point YC near the bay bridge)

If you trailer sail, You can trek to Sandy Point to rig and launch, but few catamarans go there anymore and it's a public beach or you can go racing with the Hobie fleets at clubs and beachs in the mid atlantic. .... All are very different experiences and they come at different price points and with tradeoffs. Make this call first and then the boat flavor second.

Since you plan to go overseas...and I assume that they will ship your boat for you... buy anything and sell it over there when you are done with your tour... The EU diplomats that I know had a Hobie 16 that changed owners every two years for 16 years at my club at Podickory.

Brilliant comments, Wouter!

I love the graphic you put together. Realistically speaking, I'll be sailing Hobie 16s -- as old as they are -- a lot for relatively cheap as soon as I get to Dakar. The experience sailing them will be worth more than any boat I can buy right now. When I get back to the US in 2012, whatever sailing club I choose, I can pick any cat that fits the bill then. No hurry now.



Wise words, Mark!

While I've thought of myself as a Hobie sailor for most of my life, I've come to realize that it's about more than brand loyalty. There's no way I am going to trailer a catamaran every time I want to sail. Absolutely no way! So a mast-up club is the only way to go for me. Mast-up is significantly more important to me than choice of boat. I'll sail a mast-up boat more -- regardless of whether I need to organize crew or not -- than anything I need to trailer and waste an hour setting up.

Also, I've just received word that I'm not going to be able to ship a beach cat in the container without extra cost, if it's possible at all. So I've decided not to buy a boat now. Instead, I'll sail whatever I find once I get to Dakar, i.e. Hobie 14, 16, and 21. If I still want a new boat, I'll just buy and ship something new from France.

So "make [the launch site] call first and then the boat flavor second" is excellent advice. Will definitely have to check out Podickory Point YC. Thank you!

-Roland E.

Best of luck Africat.



Hobie France makes all the interesting Hobies anyway ! So this might just be the smartest option anyway !

Fair winds to you !

Wouter

This is a very interesting thread, However way off topic.

Let's redirect this thread back to Chesapeake Bay sailing...

I would like to put some props out for an event next weekend in Virginia Beach... Sail the Bay Regatta. Hobie Fleet 32 always puts on a great event, great party and great sailing in the Chesapeake. This is always on my schedule. It conflicts with the Tybee, but if you are not involved with the Tybee... This one is worth the trip.

Find out more http://www.hobiefleet32.org/

Should be a good weekend. The A cats are trying to reciprocate the Va Beach guys trip north last month. So far 4 boats are planning on racing.

The open class is dead, The Hobie classes generally aim for Syracuse with the rest of division 11 and the madcatter but the F16's and N20's are on the fence, so...

Sic em!

Mark,

Just for everyone's edification, what format is this regatta being held/scored. "Open" Class ... "Hobie Only" ... and what classes (if known) will have a start.

Harry Murphey

Who is coming from Fleet 32

OPEN.... they don't discriminate. They have a good fleet of A cats and a 3 F18s registered. I'm planning to take the H16 with my daughter. They alway have a great H16 turnout. But with some F18s showing up, I may have to introduce my daughter to the F18... I'll make a last minute call depending on the wind.

It is also the Shark nationals. I gained a lot respect for those boats 2 years ago... It was blowing about 25 out of the NW, which made the bay like a washing machine. Those Sharks were just tanking their way through to chop and amazingly fast for a big ole wooden boat.