Let's hold off the lynch mob heading for EP for just a little while - they seem to have had an honest quality issue with the glue on the sails and have expressed an open willingness to deal with the issue. Besides being a little extreme, if we continue down this big negative loud path, it could actually inhibit an agreeable resolution.

This kind of thing is NOT that uncommon. As was recently relayed to me by another Tybee sailor, a similar thing happened with Melges 24 spinnakers made by North Sails some time ago with them blowing apart at a steady pace at a North American or World's Championship (I don't recall which).

Give EP a chance to make it right - I'm sure they will as they are a reputable sailmaker and have been making Nacra sails for a loooooong time and I would say that, in general, their quality is at least on par (if not substantially better) than many other manufacturer supplied sails. These things do happen in all kinds of business and technology and while I think it's reasonable to expect recovery on the equipment loss/failure, we should also focus on learning from it and add one more sewing/reinforcement task to our preparation for a race like this.

I own niether of these boats and should probably stay out of it, but the arguement that Mischa or JC would have won on either boat is irrelavent. 3rd and 4th place were also taken by F18's with two more in 7th and 8th. The conditions being better for an F18 with its closer reaching ability under spin is a much better arguement.

Just curious, did all you guys dry the spin after every race and take it off?
I've heard that prologned exposure to water can have a bad effect on the glue.

No, we leave them in the sock. This is my 5th Tybee 500, and I've followed the same practice for the other 4 with no problems.

I've had nothing but good experiences with Skip Elliot and his sail loft. He's always done right by me. Sounds like he is willing to look at this issue. I've been using and abusing his sails for years and I've been very pleased with their durability.

I do think an owners association is a good idea. However I would be against opening up development on the sails. That is one of the reasons I chose the N20 class. I'm not a sailmaker and don't plan on running to a new cut every year.

I do think it would be a better communication vehicle for the factory to work issues with the owners association. And the owners association to be able to communicate issues to it's members.

Mike Hill
N20 #1005

I think that people are misunderstanding the purpose of this thread.

I think Todd meant this instance of bus-tossing was referencing the comments at the awards ceremony.

No lynch mob, and again this thread isn't about EP. I just got off the phone with Harry and he's being helpful, we'll see how it pans out. He's making an effort to find the problem.
This thread is about the future of the Nacra 20. I'm with you it'll be awfully hard to get me off of this boat. It's more important to me than Chuck and the Tybee 500.

Now that is something I just don't understand.

Sure I compared the F18's to the N20's, but only a positive for the F18's. NOT to knock the N20's. Why not have two fleets as was done this year ?

The more the merrier right and both designs are close enough to not run into other problems. As when a Prindle 15 would be entered.

Wouter

6 - F-18s
17 - N20s

It was foolish and insulting for the organizer(?) to make such a comment. Next year the winds will favor the N20s and it will be a different tune. To my knowledge, this is the first year that the F-18s dominated and it is a clear example of the difference between the two platforms just like the reverse all of the other Tybees. Dumb and he probably regrets it now.

Yeah, assuming that the 20's continue to support the race. I'm not saying anything - I'm just saying that I'm tired of feeling like I get kicked in the head for all the effort...not to mention all the energy Velocity put into getting boats on the line.

The funny thing is this; I don't think it has anything to do with what boat is faster / better. They've been mumbling this thought for over a year now and I think it's waaaay to early to even consider it. FIRST; nobody knows that the attendance this year (by either the 20s or the F18s) wasn't a periodic / tidal thing or even a fluke resulting from the collective efforts on part of the sailors (who feel a little insulted now). Second, they haven't reached the maximum number of boats (30) yet - so why would you even start to consider limiting the classes?

Clearly, there's a big push somewhere to see this race with one overall winner scored on handicap. I think this week proved that is a whimsical and silly idea - at least from the water...maybe the spectators enjoyed it? In this kind of racing, scoring under handicap removes the contest from one of skill or ability but places it firmly into the capabilities of the platforms based on what direction and how strong the wind is blowing. Let's call it the "weather lottery" instead of a race.

Frankly, few of the 20's gave much thought about where the F18s were as their capabilities are completely different and we all had plenty of battling to keep us busy within our own class. I raced against Nacra 20s in the Tybee and admired the F18s. I imagine the F18s approached it the same way.

That said, I seriously enjoyed myself on the water with Frank and racing all you other folks. From a competitive standpoint, I feel it was one of the most challenging years so far and certainly the largest fleets I've raced against in this event.

I freaking LOVE this guy... but not in a gay way, not that there anything wrong with that.

Regrets it??? .... I doubt it!

The race is a lot of work and the juice you get in putting this on is in having the top international and domestic teams compete in your race.

From Mike Worrell onwards... they always look overseas and see the Archipelago Raid, Texel, Carnac and the PR that these events generate. Then they decide that the grass is greener!... So... the solution is to convert their race to the F18 class... Worrell tried to get a deal with F18's before he took on the F18HT class in his fiasco. Result= no Worrel.

Heck this year they ran the race as you might in the EU with all boats competing on handicap in SCHRS and then in their one design fleets. IMO....Perfect!
( Hell, The turnout was the best it's been in years... Now... if you don't know the sailor... you root for your flavor of boat).

Why drop the N20's??... Because he still can't purge the uniquely American bias that One Design sailing is the only legitimate and ultimate race!

For the record... on the east coast... note that the F18... still did not make a class of 10 boats in the Tybee... Spring Fever??.... nah... only 9 boats. Steeple chase??... nah... only 2 boats. Tradewinds??... nah only 8 boats. Am I missing a 10 boat F18 event??? more to the point... 10 F18's distance racing. (maybe the Texas race gets to ten F18 boats)

What's really needed is a skilled person who can explain to the public the multiple races going on out on the ocean. Hell, I bet the boy friend vs girl friend story line... or the father vs son story line or even... the david and goliath story of 18's versus 20 footers are much more interesting to the general public then who won the 8 boat F18 race (er... hobie cat to the masses).

The US obsession on one design one design one design will kill us! (and could kill the Tybee quicker then you think)!

Sigh!

If the race is scored only on corrected time, you can count me out.

I KNOW I'm not the only one with this opinion. Good luck getting to 20+ boats full of Europeans.

What the hell was the matter with the way it was done this year? We had the biggest turnout ever and it was FUN RACING! I got to see all my friends from shores near and far, and got to spend a week out on the ocean instead of sitting here being angry at a keyboard.

er...
I said score it like they did this year..

Was that a problem?

What did your keyboard ever do to you?

Agreed. If you do this, boats will have good angles and so the "boat" will win.



Attitude like that will put people off. IF I had the money, I would love to do a Tybee. I looked at doing it a few years ago when Will Sunnucks came over but I could not get all the things I needed in line.



Nothing I can see. We sailors understand the sailing, the "public" were probably more interested in the father vs son, boyfriend vs girlfriend!!!

I should have said ... "ONLY of European teams"

I realize the error of my statement now that I re-read it.

Mark, you ignore the fact that there is a significantly larger sailor base in Europe for these kind of handicap events. You also haven't recognized that we DO have those big handicap races too (Steeplechase / Round the Island / Statue Race) and even those races are seeing relatively low attendance here in the US. Your example of the Archipelago Raid is probably the closest type of racing in Europe to the Tybee (though more grueling) and it IS a strict one design for F18 only.

A race like the Tybee 500 can only support a limited number of entries...about 30. If the one design classes will support it, it makes sense to keep it one design in a few limited classes to keep the racing closer, more understandable, and more relateable for the spectators. Lastly, the sailors who are putting their boats on the beach again and again like it as one design (most of them) - who can argue with that?

You did, however, hit the nail on the head with respect to what I believe these race organizers have in their visions...but they, too, fail to recognize that which is right before them - there are limited teams to draw from in the US and the sailors on those beaches are the ones that are making these races happen. It's a nice lofty goal to get a huge international draw for the race - but the reality of it hasn't ever amounted to anything more than two teams (typically very talented teams mind you...but no more than two in any given year).

It is a large expensive logistical nightmare for us who live only 1,000 miles away and can drag, stuff, and trailer our boats, gear, and ground crew to the start line. I can't imagine what it would take to try and make that happen flying across the pond. One thing for sure, however, if they really do want to see an international draw, the race management needs to start working on shipping container packages, sailing/hotel/transportation package deals, and intend to do a whole lot more planning along the lines of where Worrell was headed.

Perhaps it would be worth someone from the Tybee team talking to the organisers of the Aruba Regatta re shipping boats around. There are (I think) two containers organised from here (both leave from Amsterdam I think). They might be able to give the Tybee team a pointer to setting up a boat shipment plan and some contacts at P+O Ned LLoyd.