Wow... just read Rick's editorial in the new Catsailor...

Sorry to hear that the actual Wave Class was tossed from the Hobie Havamega event because they don't follow the Hobie rules.

Nothing subtle about this message. They are clearly hanging out the "YOU are not welcome at our event sign"!

Arent the waves built in the USA?
Wow they are kicking out there own kind, what the hell?

I haven't seen the editorial yet, but I can categorically state that is not what happened. Another case of Mark stirring up **** that he knows nothing about.

The original NOR had the Waves using the IWCA rules. The IHCA had some issues with that, and offered to modify the IHCA Waves rules to allow aftermarket rudders and sails (the only real differences betweeen the rules) for this event. However, the aftermarket sails would need to "fit within the perimeter of the stock Wave sail". In consulting with a IWCA measurer, I was not convinced that that would happen. As the PRO for the event, I didn't want people showing up with aftermarket sails and being DSQ'd because they didn't measure in. Nor did I want to deal with measuring sails.

Hobie Cat (who is still planning on providing a trailer-load of charter boats to the event) got involved and stated that no modifications (including aftermarket sails) would be allowed on the charter boats.

So . . Gordo said "Screw it! I'm tired of dealing with the rule mongering - we'll just run it with the IHCA Rules." - which are different from the IWCA in only the two aspects described above.

Nobody "dis-invited" the Waves.

The HAVAMEGA will be the Wave North American Championship. All Wave owners / sailors are welcome. Hobie Cat is providing a lot of charter boats. You can bring your own boat, but it has to have a Hobie sail and stock rudders.

But doesnt that go against the class rules? ie IWCA?

Why have them compete if they cant use there own set of rules?

It sounds like someone would make an F16 event, and specify you can race in the event, but only TWO up, and the ONE ups wont be able to compete, ie going against class rules.

The "problem" is that there are two sets of class rules for the Wave.

"Rick's Rules" - the IWCA Rules
"Hobie's Rules" - the IHCA Rules

I won't get into a debate on whose rules take precedence where.

The HAVAMEGA is being run with the IHCA Rules.

Most, if not all of the "IWCA" is concentrated on the East Coast, so most, if not all, of those sailors will be chartering a boat for this event.

Hobie Cat is not allowing any changes to the charter boats, so the use of the IHCA Rules is entirely a moot point.

Hmm... You should read the published letter by Gorden Bagley... He is quite apologetic about the deal. He writes

"As a final remark I will say that were it not for the intrusion of one already named individual in all this, we'd be well on our way to a lot more fun than I now anticipate, and I believe Hobie Cat would have sold quite a few Waves in the process."

Why not just run the regatta as originally published using the IWCA rules and have the charter contract state that no changes may be made to the charter boats? The stock Wave certainly measures into the IWCA rules. Those that bring their boats increase the size of the fleet. No measurement required by you as the PRO.

Everybody welcomed!

Let's move from this posturing to the concrete. If you were going to attend the Havamega on your Wave under the IWCA and now under IHCA won't, post here now.

It's time to see who is just talking smack and who's really bummed by the decision. Be counted, post now, be honest.

J

Show up at the Nacra (Performance) North Americans and se if you can race with an aftermarket sail or rudder. The I-20's can't even use a different sail for Tybee.
They are welcome but only as a one design boat. So the sailors are welcome, The boats are welcome, The changes aren't welcome.

That's true, but it's an apples and oranges comparison. You're more likely to make a better comparison using the Nacra 6.0 NE (New England) where the New England group developed a rule using spinnakers outside of the Nacra 6.0NA rules. I do believe they were allowed to participate at the Nacra NA's in their own developed configuration.

The reason the N20 comparison doesn't work is because there hasn't been an upswell of owners who created their own racing rules and developed the class on their own. These Wave guys and girls made that whole class racing thing happen - and I believe there was HCA resistance to racing waves (or at least putting tighter control on sail shapes and sizes so the class could compete on a relatively even playing field with the stock equipment) at the time which sorta led to the sailors developing their own thing.

Havamega is Hobie turf and they certainly have the right to do what they want, but I can see why a few folks are steamed at the decision. Why NOT allow Wave racing under IWCA rules?

What I dont comprehend is all this talk on this forum that sport is dying etc and that we should as much as possible to bring more boats on the line, why limit yourselves?

I say the more the merrier. Its a HOBIE wave for crying out loud. Its saying NO to your own kind.

IMO very lame and not good for growing the sport.

Right. Which is exactly why I want to get a count of who is not going to attend because of the change. Let's not speculate. Let's see some hard numbers. Who'd we loose? Anyone?

J

Its simpler then that.

You invite the IWCA sailors to compete. Months go by... You change your mind and then say NO you are not welcome. Then it seems that you throw the regatta organizer under the bus as if it is his fault.

But... I am sure the 5 sailors (total) who raced a Wave last year in a single NAHCA regatta were consulted, 3 of them are class members so you have their contact info... and you are speaking for them. Right? The core of the NAHCA Wave Class are coming to the NA's... right J?

You would be better off just apologizing to the sailors, the regatta chair and the class pres who promoted the idea and saying you screwed up in the beginning. Stand there and say... We, the controlling power behind the class figureheads believe it's better to stand on principle of SMOD for the future... then grow the regatta and support sailors in the present.

Mark, you have a wonderful ability to twist facts to stir up ****. I'm seriously tempted to put you on my "ignore" list - an ingnominy you would share only with Wouter.

Who is the "you" in your statement, Mark? Me? The IHCA? Hobie Cat? Gordo? I didn't throw Gordo under the bus - if you read his e-mail, you'd know who he blamed it on.

Nobody ever said that the Wave sailors were not welcome at the HAVAMEGA. They are most certainly welcome - in fact, the Waves will be the only class with charter boats available at the event.

I repeat Jeremy's challenge - who was planning to go to the HAVAMEGA and will not now because of the rules change?

When I post, I speak for no one but myself as owner/ president of Surf City Catamarans inc. As supporting dealer at this event, I would like to simply know if this decision is going to result in fewer sailors in attendance; or if it's just another episode of Days of our Lives, brought to you by people that like to make-believe conflict.

Gordo's a good friend and does more for the sport than pretty much anyone here. He's going to read this and just be bummed that this discussion about his regatta is becoming a pissing match. There are a lot of phone calls and personal emails when a decision like this has to be made, and most of the time people that know about 1/4 of the story are the ones to post publicly.

I want some hard data to support my ideas on where I stand on the topic of this thread. My business spends a considerable chunk of change at the two largest catamaran manufacturers in the U.S., a big one in Europe, and a small one in AUS. Needless to say, I can call the owners or Presidents of these companies and voice my opinion from a businessperson's point of view, and feel they will take my ideas into consideration when making decisions. I want the facts to support what I say when I call, not some hyperbole.

J

OK, let's stop dancing around the real issue here and discuss that instead. As I understand it, the Charter Waves will have Stock rudders and Stock sails. Fair enough. But the Other Waves might have "Special Sails" and "Special Rudders".

OK, why not have 2 divisions then? Stock and Non-Stock? 3 more trophy's to hand out, that's all it would take, everybody's happy, you could even turn it into a "A Fleet, B Fleet" type thing.

Hey, some people just want to buy a Wave and go racing and -not- have to buy a custom sail and custom rudders too, think of the added expense.

You guys in the Non-Stock division can spend thousands on custom square tops, carbon rudders, etc. if you want to, but don't make it so that a guy on a stock boat won't be competitive.

And obviously, if you are going to allow custom sails, you have to Measure them. Somebody needs to step up and do it, that's all.

Matt... YOU seemed to blame Gordon Bagley for the final decision with this statement.

So . . Gordo said "Screw it! I'm tired of dealing with the rule mongering - we'll just run it with the IHCA Rules."

You are right... I was not in the loop... you were... You said Gordo did it. This surprised me since that's not consistent with his published letter.

If you have an electronic copy of his letter... please post it..

His letter to Rick White published in Catsailor paraphrasing says... Dan Mangus, Hobie marketing director did it and I am sending a message by changing the NOR as they insist. So he throws Dan Mangus under the bus.

J
The last line of the editorial.. Says "Most of the IWCA members have written me and opted to NOT attend ...."
Since Rick is the IWCA class president he might know and I will wait for his comment.

Now were getting to my point. I want to know how many. I want names.

J

Any chance someone could add a link to Rick's editorial?

Gordo is the event chairman. He is ultimately responsible for the decisions made regarding the event. I will not speak for him - the "letter" was the e-mail published by Rick in Catsailor. That is Gordo's statement and apology to the president of the IWCA regarding his decision.

If I understand the concept of the "Wave Class" rules correctly the custom sails are based/sized on "crew wieght". (isn't the F18 class the same way). I'm not sure why there are different rudder blades that are "Wave Class Legal".

Let's review some "History" ...

When the Hobie Wave was introduced (10 years ago???) the HCA-NA did not allow or include the "Waves" in "Hobie Racing" ... so the Wave Owners formed their own Class Association and developed their own rules. And their rules seem to be working for them.

So now the HCA-NA wants to welcome them (the Waves) into the HCA-NA after ten years of ignoring the Waves... but on only the IHCA terms???????

I hate hypocrisy .... and I can not post here in "proper company" my response ..... but it involves an Internationally reconized hand-gesture using the middle finger w/ a two word verbal utterence. I'm personally getting REALLY tired of the IHCA sticking their noses in when it suits them w/ their version of "One-Design" philosophy ... which (IMHO) IS NOT "One-Design" ... how do you explain sails that vary by 4-6" in both boltrope and chord lengths, but they all had a "Hobie sailmakers patch" on them and were thereby class legal ... or "OD" boats that varied in wieght by 10-15%!!!!

AND FYI: Last weekend @ RHYC a "US Sailing Instructors" course was held ... there were individuals from five different Sailing Schools/Programs that were using a beach cat in their programs .... do you care to hazard a quess as too which "beach cat" they are using ???? It ain't no H16!!!!!

We need to make these "Wave" sailors welcome .... part of the "Hobie Family" and the larger Multhull community. Like it or not the Hobie Wave is the "de-facto" current entry level boat for a large percentage of "new" multihull sailors.

Ignore them at HCA-NA's peril ....

Harry Murphey