I would have to say that your approach is anything but respectful.
I like to treat people online like I would face to face.
I have not met many people that would speak to me like that in person.

I believe this makes the point. The following proposal was approved at last years AGM. It's not enough to make everyone happy but it shows you that things are not all set in stone. The proposal was made by Chris and I but it was the result of input from many rank and file class members like yourself.

HCA Ranking System Proposal

Proposed by Bob Merrick and Chris Wessels

Proposal:

Results from the following types of events shall count towards the HCA Regional Rakings.

1- All events in which the HCA and/or an associated HCA Division and/or HCA fleet is the Organizing Authority. These events shall be HCA One-Design events. An HCA One-Design events is an event that conforms to the HCA One-Design policy. An explanation of this policy is available on the HCA website.

2- Up to three additional events in each HCA Division in which the Organizing Authority is not affiliated with the HCA. These events are subject to the following conditions.

Each Hobie Class (i.e. Hobie 16 or Hobie 20) in which ranking points will be awarded must

a) have at least five boats competing.

b) have a separate, one-design start.

c) compete using Hobie Class rules.

For an event to qualify under option 2 the Division Chair in which the event is to be held shall make a request by contacting the HCA Chair for approval prior to the event. This should be done 3-6 months ahead of time so that all sailors can be properly notified.

Results should be sent to the HCA scorekeeper from an official associated with the event.

All individuals scored in the HCA Regional Ranking must be HCA members.

Reason:

Introducing Option 2 events will help Divisions that don't currently host HCA One-Design regattas pick a few events in which to focus participation as a one-design fleet. It will also give these Divisions an incentive to host a few HCA One-Design events so that sailors can count a full five events in the ranking.

In the more active Divisions this will work to get good turnout at select multi-class events which is good exposure for the Hobie Class.

I'm with you Pat, I'm really not understanding how people think hostility is helping any of this.


I'll re-post my observation from the earlier post:

"As for the IWCA vs IHCA Wave rules, I have watched this for a long, long, long time (since its inception, actually). The main point put forward originally by IWCA (published in Catsailor) was that SMOD sails cost more, that's why IWCA wanted to be able to use multiple sail makers. Now, it's gone down the road of making the sail fit your personal style, which gives ammunition to the IHCA SMOD position, as this has the potential to be viewed as an arms race."

Where in this did I say that I agree with either position?


To clear up the REAL BS in this thread...

SMOD is a death-sentence? Wow. Several of you really need to spend some time reading this before you waste any more of my time posting here...

http://www.laserinternational.org/rules/Current%20Rules.pdf

Looks REMARKABLY like this:

http://www.hobieclass.com/site/hobie/ihca/downloads/rulebook/RBook090101_1.pdf

For those of us just refusing to let it sink in, here are the Cliffs Notes…

Lasers use multiple licensed builders, just like Hobie Cats.

Laser sails come from those licensed builders, just like Hobie Cats.

Laser sailors are required to be MEMBERS to participate (another subject of constant discord), just like Hobie Cat sailors.

And, Lasers are one of the most successful classes in the world, just like… wait for it… HOBIE CATS…

SMOD is clearly the problem, I can see that now…


Harry, if you were actually a member who gave an actual rats butt enough to be a member continuously (not just on odd years when it suits you), and to actually participate (as in, attend meetings), you would KNOW that the IHCA positions are ELECTED by the chairs of the regional associations. Here is the full list:

http://www.hobieclass.com/?MenuID=Links%2F10771%2F0&Page=1903


My overall point in this thread remains, one can blame anyone and everyone that one wants; but if one stays home, one is contributing to the shrinking base.

Mike

THANK YOU TO ALL WHO ARE PUTTING IN THE TIME AND EFFORT TO KEEP RACES HAPPENING.

I'm sorry, but I just have to say something about this. The Laser is arguably one of the most weight-sensitive boats ever designed. And that is probably why they have three different Laser classes: The Laser 4.7 for the younger kids moving into Laser (and it involves a separate mast section); the Laser Radial for older youth and women; and the Laser full rig.

The optimum crew weight on a full-rig Laser is about 165 pounds. (That is what I was told by an Olympic-level Laser sailor.)

So the Laser has three different classes with three different sails, all to accommodate three different weight and ability levels.

Red Herring...

There are multiple models of Hobie Cats, in part, to solve the same problem.

The three Laser rigs are NOT raced as one single design, rather as three separate classes. No attempt is made to balance the weight for single-class racing.

EDIT: How does this make your point about the Laser (not) being one of the most successful classes?

Mike

I agree with Mike and Pat on this one. I have been a member of NAHCA, or what ever the current name has been, since 1971. We have always had membership input on rules and membership leadership through the Hobie Cat Fleet and Divisions. Anyone that claims otherwise was either not there or did not take part.

Caleb Tarleton
Hobie Cat Fleet 95 and Div. 4

Of course not, because they are racing one-design within each class, which is already balanced out for weight by having the same sails in each weight class.

When you get up to the full-sail Laser rig, then the sailors themselves balance out their own weight. I can tell you that the top sailors keep themselves on very strict diet and exercise regimes to stay within the optimum weight for success.

How many catamaran sailors want to be that self-disciplined just for fun? Those Olympic Laser guys live on stuff that looks a lot like dog food.

I seen some food at regattas that looked like dog food for sure, but most of the guys I race with have never been on a strict diet other than a see-food diet.
Pat and I are pretty much exclusive members of the 'over 200lbs' Hobie 14 racers. Plus you add in the boats that are at least 30 years old and we wonder why we don't have a lot of 1st place 14 trophys at home.

You say hostility is not the answer but then you blast murphy for stating his opinion.

Also, since we are on Lasers, I WAS a member of the Laser class, raced 1 year with them. The 3 different classes you talk about, well when the wind picks up, some sailors switch to a radial sail, but still race SMOD, totally legal apparently. There was always alot of talk amongst the group about who should be sailing in what class, none of it was welcoming or uplifting.
Also, talking about SMOD keeps cost down? Try to by the new Laser downhaul kit. Its like $300, but I can buy a Harken pivoting exit block, a couple of small airblocks, 2 pieces of line for under $100, and I have the same thing. But thats not class legal beacuase I didnt buy it from Laser.
Im not trying to stir the pot, but when I see guys who are factory reps talking like factory reps, and guys who are Hobie dealers talking like factory reps, and people who clearly only see Hobie as the only brand, then I have to call BS.
I know what happened in my area, and it wasnt pretty. Maybe other parts of the country can fall victim to the SMOD fantacism and claim it works well for thier area, and maybe it does, but not here in the Southeast.

So what you're saying is that maybe we all need to join US SAILING and make an extra donation so our Olympic athletes can hire better nutritionists so they can eat actual food rather than dog food and get the same nutritional value, but... once again, this has nothing to do with the Laser class being unsuccessful. There are tons of people racing Lasers just for fun, just like we are.

As Pat already pointed out, fat people like us can and do have moments of brilliance. If I were concerned about my weight vs. trophy ratio, I'd either get to a gym or sail a leadmine.

Mike

BTW, my son owns and sails a H14, and I wish I could buy a Wave for him, but they are too expensive.

Hi Dave,

"You say hostility is not the answer but then you blast murphy for stating his opinion."

Harry brings that upon himself by forming opinions based on a complete lack of current (and/or factual) information, and instead of just stating an opinion and asking for clarification, immediately moves to attack volunteers.

"Also, since we are on Lasers, I WAS a member of the Laser class, raced 1 year with them. The 3 different classes you talk about, well when the wind picks up, some sailors switch to a radial sail, but still race SMOD, totally legal apparently. There was always alot of talk amongst the group about who should be sailing in what class, none of it was welcoming or uplifting."

If that's true, that is unfortunate. This does not happen where I live (and run Laser regattas).

"Also, talking about SMOD keeps cost down? Try to by the new Laser downhaul kit. Its like $300, but I can buy a Harken pivoting exit block, a couple of small airblocks, 2 pieces of line for under $100, and I have the same thing. But thats not class legal beacuase I didnt buy it from Laser."

Hobie Cat sailors are allowed to purchase blocks and lines from any manufacturer and supplier.

"Im not trying to stir the pot, but when I see guys who are factory reps talking like factory reps, and guys who are Hobie dealers talking like factory reps, and people who clearly only see Hobie as the only brand, then I have to call BS.
I know what happened in my area, and it wasnt pretty. Maybe other parts of the country can fall victim to the SMOD fantacism and claim it works well for thier area, and maybe it does, but not here in the Southeast."

If it looks and smells like stirring...

Mike

You know, almost everyone on this forum are probably genuinely nice guys, guys you want to hang out with at a regatta, its unfortunate that we all have differnet opinions, but we need to look at the big picture(IMHO) of how to keep Catamaran Racing alive. I dont have the answers, never said I did. I wish we could fix whatever it was that has brought the decline of our sport, whatever our opinions say it is.

The difference of opinions has the potential to be a good thing, after all, innovation is sometimes very helpful.

The problem comes in when people don't get their way and instead of letting it go or working to improve it over time, hold a huge grudge and rub it in the faces of those who are doing the work...

Mike

Nobody said anything about the Laser Class being unsuccessful. The class is enormously successful. But its success is because they recognized early on that one sail does not fit all.

Well, not early on enough for me, back when I was sailing a Laser.

Dave
I just bought Jacob (my 10 year old) a Wave, got a 2000 model from by boy Brad at Sunjammers and got a really nice boat for reasonable. Just keep looking. Jake won't touch the 14 (seen my older son pitch it a million times) but loves the Wave,so if you can find one, DO.
BTW- Harry means well, he just doesn't use the emoticons to express his intent (maybe we all should.....)anyway, cut him some slack. He has some frustrations up in his neck of the woods that may be unique, and maybe barks a little louder because of it.
Anyway, its beautiful here. Sunny and 75, and looking forward to our race this weekend on the Mississippi River that our militant friend Karl FX/Oneboy is in charge of.

Well, that's one way of looking at it...

I think HC is the one with the grudge and not helping. In the old division 9 now EMSA we have not really changed. We still have most of the same regattas put on by the same hard workers and most of the same sailors. The only real difference is we don't get any support from HC and we don't call them Hobie Regattas, but all cats are welcome. If five of the same class Hobie's show up they get there own start. I just don't get why HC has a problem with this. You are racing od if you get five of the same boat Hobie or whatever. If you don't have five of your same class you go into the open class same as if I went to a Hobie only regatta and was the only one of my class. The sailors spend all the time and money putting on the regatta and we used to call it Hobie regatta. It was free advertising for HC done at the expense of sailors that love the sport and want to see it grow.

Why don't you race the Waves together with the two different set of rules and score them together and separate to see if the different sails make a difference and call it a one time test. Maybe then everyone would be happy. The wave is a Hobie I think.

For the record, HCA and HCC don't have a problem with what you're doing. If that becomes more successful than the Hobie Cat regattas in the rest of the country, more power to you.

Mike