Doesn't mean that I don't drove anywhere. My commute consists of about a 2 mile drive to and from the grocery store everyday for lunch.



I really really love my SUV because it does everything I require a vehicle to do. When they come out with an 40mpg FJ Cruiser, I'll be the first in line to buy one. (Turbo Diesel FJ's exist in other countries that get 30mpg)

I'll walk before I'll step into a shitbox like a Prius or *gag* insight.

40 mpg is what my 15 year old Toyota starlet got on average. I have towed a stacked Prindle 16 and Prindle 18 behind that car and it would still do 120 km/h quite comfortably (75 mph). I think I still got 30 MPG driving like that.

The bloody thing was roomy enough to transport 2.50 mtr long sailbags and booms inside. I also transported landyachts on the roof rack lots of times.

And it was quick of the line in city traffic. 65 hp/105 NM on a 800 kg car (1750 lbs) will do that.

I loved that car to bits and it was all 1993 low cost and low maintaince technology.

Funk the hybrids ! Bring back the old design starlets ! (the starlet models from 1998 onwards are not as good, to much weird round styling makign the inside space akward for transporting stuff and the standard power steering funked up the steering)

Wouter

Any mid-size Peugeot/Citroen/Renault/VW/Opel/Seat/Fiat turbo diesel will get at least 50 miles/gal.

i.e: A Citroen C2 1.4 diesel (small car) gets 65 miles/gal

On the top of it, these cars are FAST and have great road handling.

Wake up... You are 50 years behind.

In a nutshell, thank your US Government regulations for safety...side impact ratings...air bags...the list goes on and on and continues on. There's a lot of foreign and domestic cars sold in the US from the late 70's to the early 90's that provided excellent fuel economy. A major factor in the mandatory addition of all this regulation?

It's a sailors worst enemy WEIGHT. Look at the weights of the vehicles of then and now.

Guys & girls, the diesel car is much much better than you would think. VW shot themselves in the foot a few years ago when they found the diesel turbo Golf was faster around a very famous German racing ring then their all singing and dancing GTi Golf, so much so they stopped production of the GTi for a few years until they bought out a new 3.2 V6 version called the VR32 which was only just faster than the Diesel version. Bit unfair really as the Diesel is only 2.0l and the petrol 3.2L.

Downside of all the emmissions gadges over here in the EU is the soot particulates from the diesel is stored until the engine is warm enough to burn them off. A friend works for Mercedes and one of his perks is take the large Merc used as a shopping trolley, to the nearest motorway to get it warm enough, when it does start to burn the soot off he laughing said it is like the best 007 smokescreens, it will darken even the brightest day.

i've got a 15 year old 2ltr turbo diesel nissan van that i bought cheap with 125,000kms, now has 200,000kms and the engine is still good

body rusting, exhaust replaced. ball joints replaced etc but not bad for a cheap vehicle and the economy is pretty good

Tiger,




Diesel based MPG is not the same as gasoline based MPG !

You can''t really compare the two directly unless looking at overal cost per mile driven.

It is time people start realizing that.

Wouter

Sorry I guess I am not following. MPG=miles/gal, shouldn't matter if it is gas, diesel, or vegetable oil. I understand if you are talking about the cost of driving a vehicle, where you can factor in MPG, cost of maintenance, insurance, resale value, and life expectancy of the vehicle. Am I not understanding correctly, or is this what you are rfering to?

He's referring to the fact that diesel, at least over here in the states, is more expensive that "petrol".

Go it sounds like getting 50mpg is great, its less great than it sounds.

Back to the 1990 Honda Civic.., just think in 6 more years I can get antique car plates for it.

I had forgotten about the VW Rabbit PU I had when I was living in Vail. Great car and got 60+ MPG. Had to have an oil heater hooked up at night to start it in the cold winter mornings, but not a big deal.
It had plenty of power for me. I could buzz over the passes with the big boys. Pulled our Hobie 18 to regattas, but the windage did slow it down a bit. Cruise control while towing was a large brick.

Diesels are more efficient and reliable. The 24h of Le Mans have been won by diesels since 5 years.

And the latest models have great performance.

Overall, weight is key, like flatlander said. It is really ridiculous to carry 6000lbs of steel when going to the grocery store.
On the safety side, saying you are more protected just leads to bigger and bigger cars as everybody tries to beat the other guy.
Only a 6$/gal gas (like in Europe) will solve the problem.

Look at this table:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_carbon_dioxide_emissions_per_capita

Diesel is less than gas now where I live. It has been higher than gas though.

Same here in NC, diesel is now cheaper than petrol. I have an 05 Jetta TDI 5spd and love it, worst MPG ever is 41 and best is 52.

Actually at this time diesel is less that unleaded.
Current Avg. $2.667 (unleaded)
$2.633 (diesel )

http://www.fuelgaugereport.com/index.asp

ahh well around here I'm paying $2.45 for gas, diesel is still $2.60something.

a nice tool for your next road trip, you may save enough for a mocha locha

gasbuddy

Back in the 70's, 80's and 90's diesel used to cost about 25 cents a gallon (or more) LESS than gasoline, so buying a Diesel car (or truck) got you a double savings, better mileage PLUS cheaper fuel.

It seems in the past 9 years or so, Diesel fuel went way up in price, relative to gasoline, over here in the USA. I think it was partly due to added taxes to the diesel fuel along with the laws to produce a "cleaner" diesel fuel, less sulphur, less polution, etc, and even higher demand, as there are lots more big-rig trucks flying up and down the highways now, along with lots more diesel F250's and F350's (Ford pickup trucks for you guys over there).

I did a "Cost-Benefit" analysis a few years ago because I needed a new truck to tow the horses to shows. I spent about a year asking horse trainers how they liked their diesel trucks, was it cheaper than a gas truck, what kind of mileage do you get towing the horses (10mpg was the standard answer) should I get a diesel or gas if I'm only doing one show a month, or less, etc.

Convinced I'd look sharp in a new F250 Diesel I went to the Ford Dealer, and nearly passed out when I saw the sticker prices! Sticker shock does not come close to what I had. Sticker OUTRAGE would be more accurate! You know where they list the "Options" (like a friggn' FM RADIO: $450, FM Radio with 6 disc CD: $650). well the "Option" of a 6.0 liter Diesel was, get this, about $5,000!

$5,000 and you are going to pay 25 to 50 cents MORE per gallon for diesel, and only get 10MPG hauling horses to shows?! YGTBSM.

So to save $5,000 on the truck, and get nearly -as good- gas mileage (but with cheaper gas), I bought the F150 with the 5.7L gas engine. It's been a good truck for what I do with it. The F250 would have been nice but really overkill for what little towing I do, to say nothing of the more expensive diesel fuel it requires.

I seriously thought about producing my own veggie oil fuel by using used fry oil from all the fast food joints around here, but someone has alrady got contracts for that.

Jack took me to my first 12 Hours of Sebring LeMans race last March, the fastest cars out there were the TDI cars, and Audi has won the race, the last 7 years, with their TDI car.

I'm a believer, I just wish I could find one I can afford!

And did I see someone drives their SUV 2 miles to the grocery store for lunch --every day--?? Come on, get a refridgerator and do it once a week, or ride a bike everyday. OR, God Forbid, WALK.

That is the single biggest difference I have noticed between Europe and the USA. So many people over there ride bikes to work, or walk, or take trains. NOBODY over here does, except Lance Armstrong of course...and all our Soccer Mom's drive Suburbans with...1 kid in the back.

Any wonder 60% of us are obese?

I don't like getting 18mpg in my truck and would like to see a full size pick-up that could deliver better mileage. My commute is 50 miles 1 way on some of the most heavily traveled highway in NC. I used to drive it in a 300z and was scared for my life, I am and feel safe in the truck. There is no way I would consider a little car like the smart car or even ride a motorcycle. I WANT TO STAY ALIVE!

You don't think that I get a little bit of a break since I don't drive to work? Its honestly more of a "I have to get the #$%#$ out of this house before I go insane" type of thing more than getting food. Sometimes I mix it up and get thai...

If I walked that 2 miles, I'd get run over. Its a 2 lane, 55mph highway. Yesterday it was 120.4'F in the sun. I think I'll take the SUV.

You know, I agree that you probably made a good decision there. I think pedestrians do have it easier (mostly) on the other side of the atlantic. Now, if you could safely walk or ride a bike to your lunch..

To get back on topic. Here in the land of polar bears and politicians without backbones we have a law where nobody are permitted to develop areas within 100meters of the water. Everybody can also walk/camp in any area not farmed as long as it is 'wild nature' and more than 200meters from houses with people. Being allowed to store cats on a beach.. Sure, if you had done so for some time, but it is different since we have sailing clubs with mast-up storage here. I am really satisfied having laws protecting access to the coastline and nature, so local beurocrats and landowners can not close off areas like that beach this thread started with.

Are you going to do anything about being kicked off the beach?