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Safety Quiz #183553
06/30/09 12:09 AM
06/30/09 12:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
SurfCityRacing Offline OP
old hand
SurfCityRacing  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
At approximately 1900 hrs on Sat eve June 22, 2009 a skipper and crew set out on his fairly nice Hobie 18.

At approximately 1930, the boat capsized in 18 knots of breeze and calm seas and the skipper was separated from the boat, and it was moving away from him faster than he could swim. The crew climbed the mast and purposely turtled the boat to slow headway, the skipper swam to the boat and boarded.

At approximately 2030 as the sun was setting, the 70' sailing vessel Chardonay II, with 49 passengers aboard saw the vessel in distress and altered course. Chardonay II made contact with the Vessel, radioed the Santa Cruz Harbor Patrol and stood on scene until the Harbor rescue vessel arrived.

The crew was taken aboard and the last known coordinates were reported to the Coast Guard.

Vessel Assist was hired the next morning and started a 6 hour search. Additional coordinates were given to Vessel Assist from a Coast Guard plane that happened to be searching for an overturned fishing boat in the same area.

The boat wasn't found until today in this condition:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

These guys were lucky. The water is about 56F, that's a cold night in the water!

What could they have had aboard to facilitate their own rescue?

J

-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: Safety Quiz [Re: SurfCityRacing] #183560
06/30/09 02:28 AM
06/30/09 02:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
From the looks of that boat, water temperature would not have been a problem. I wonder what ran over it.

I think the safest thing, when sailing on open water, is to always sail on the buddy system, with another boat.

As far as what they could have had aboard to help them, I would think a VHF radio and/or a cell phone and a GPS unit.

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: SurfCityRacing] #183564
06/30/09 03:14 AM
06/30/09 03:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,203
uk
TEAMVMG Offline
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TEAMVMG  Offline
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Posts: 1,203
uk
Shame, its a proper Boomer too!

The guys did well to stay together. A phone in a waterproof zip bag would have made things easier.

I know stuff breaks or goes wrong, but if you are sailing alone you should always be confident that you can right the boat in all conditions. One of Ricks righting poles or a water bag should have been on board.

Hopefully the dicks that think it is ok to single-hand a 2-hander will take this on board too.


Paul

teamvmg.weebly.com
Re: Safety Quiz [Re: TEAMVMG] #183579
06/30/09 06:15 AM
06/30/09 06:15 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
a drogue chute would have keep the boat from drifting so fast. Being able to right the boat from a turtle would have helped as well, but this means that the mast needed to be sealed.

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: ThunderMuffin] #183584
06/30/09 06:41 AM
06/30/09 06:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
The drift is fastest when the trampoline is perpendicular to the wind. So you can also slow the drift by getting up on the bow and dragging feet (and whatever else you can find to drag), to turn the bows into the wind. And sometimes the boat will even right itself when you do this. I wouldn't count on that happening, but at least the drift will be slowed considerably when the trampoline is in line with the wind instead of crossways.

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: Mary] #183599
06/30/09 07:13 AM
06/30/09 07:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
mbounds Offline
Pooh-Bah
mbounds  Offline
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Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI
Things they forgot:

VHF Radio
GPS
Cell Phone
Brains

It's idiots like that that give catamaran sailors a bad reputation.

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: mbounds] #183602
06/30/09 07:37 AM
06/30/09 07:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
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Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Ditto.

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: Mary] #183606
06/30/09 07:52 AM
06/30/09 07:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Mark Schneider Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mark Schneider  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116
Annapolis, MD
Ditto to Matt's point

Do you think they even have a clue how to right the boat from a turtle?

Do you think they had a plan B.

A lot of the rec sailors on my beach have never thought about these seamanship issues much less read or talked to someone about these issues.

Good question that might save someone's life.




crac.sailregattas.com
Re: Safety Quiz [Re: Mark Schneider] #183616
06/30/09 08:32 AM
06/30/09 08:32 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
F-18 5150 Offline
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F-18 5150  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,430
california
Never go out on a Yellow Hobie 18 in Santa Cruz. This is just like last time almost an identicle 18 did the same thing.

Have someone on the beach to know your planned arrival time. Always go out with more than 1 boat. Always carry safety gear, Any time I'm in the ocean I have a marine radio, phone, gps, flares , whistle , mirror and flashlight.
If your flares get old then buy new ones and set them off on the 4th of July.


Richard Vilvens
Brand Ambassador
PSA Capricorn USA
R.Vilvens@yahoo.com
Fairfield, Ca
F-18 5150

http://www.capricornsailing.com/
Re: Safety Quiz [Re: Mark Schneider] #183618
06/30/09 08:36 AM
06/30/09 08:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
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pepin  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
Dude, that must have been a big shark to leave those teeth marks...

[...playing Jaws theme...]

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: pepin] #183625
06/30/09 08:46 AM
06/30/09 08:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Will_R Offline
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Will_R  Offline
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Posts: 733
Home is where the harness is.....
Originally Posted by pepin
Dude, that must have been a big shark to leave those teeth marks...

[...playing Jaws theme...]


You're going to need a bigger boat!

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: SurfCityRacing] #183642
06/30/09 09:31 AM
06/30/09 09:31 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by SurfCityRacing
What could they have had aboard to facilitate their own rescue?


Smarter people!

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: ] #183648
06/30/09 09:53 AM
06/30/09 09:53 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,969
Well, one thing they had going for them was that there were two of them. If they had a clue how to right the boat, they would have been all set (assuming the mast was sealed). People really need to practice this before they go anywhere.

As a former idiot, who tried this trick single-handed once (my third time ever on my first Hobie), and wound up out overnight on the bottom of a Hobie 16, I totally agree with Matt's list. At a minimum, the VHF, tied to you, is critical. I used to get laughs and stares when I showed up at fleet events with my VHF, until I told people this story. Amazingly, no one thinks it could happen to them, so not one other person went out and got a VHF to sail with routinely. I won't even go out without one anymore.

Anyway, as for their boat, mine got back in the same shape, and the damage was done by the Coast Guard. They didn't know how to right it, so they tried to drag it in (sideways, I presume). My guess would be that they used grappling hooks, because I've seen them up close, when they show up with a 41-footer, they have zero plans of going in the water to do anything...

Mike

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: SurfCityRacing] #183665
06/30/09 10:30 AM
06/30/09 10:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 440
Graham, NC
WindyHillF20 Offline
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Posts: 440
Graham, NC
Ok, boat flips and skipper gets seperated. Crew turtles boat and skipper gets back on board. It appears an hour passed and the cruise boat makes contact. We are to understand that the TheMightyHobie18 could not be brought out of the turtle and righted. There is no mention of hyperthermia so they must have been dressed for the water temp.

Either no righting system was on the boat or they just didn't know how to right it.

How much damage was done by the contact and was contact an hour after the initial flip or did they right it and flip again prior to the collision with the cruise boat?

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: WindyHillF20] #183666
06/30/09 10:50 AM
06/30/09 10:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
H
Headhunter Offline
journeyman
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Posts: 91
Dunedin, FL
Thread jack - So I've never managed to turtle a boat. How does one actually right from a turtle?

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: brucat] #183669
06/30/09 11:11 AM
06/30/09 11:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
hobie1616 Offline
Carpal Tunnel
hobie1616  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

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Posts: 5,582
“an island in the Pacifi...
Originally Posted by brucat
As a former idiot, who tried this trick single-handed once (my third time ever on my first Hobie), and wound up out overnight on the bottom of a Hobie 16, I totally agree with Matt's list. At a minimum, the VHF, tied to you, is critical. I used to get laughs and stares when I showed up at fleet events with my VHF, until I told people this story. Amazingly, no one thinks it could happen to them, so not one other person went out and got a VHF to sail with routinely. I won't even go out without one anymore.

Hawaii state law requires either a VHF radio or EPIRB on every boat.


US Sail Level 2 Instructor
US Sail Level 3 Coach
Re: Safety Quiz [Re: WindyHillF20] #183673
06/30/09 11:44 AM
06/30/09 11:44 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
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Luiz  Offline
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Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by WindyHillF20
Ok, boat flips and skipper gets seperated. Crew turtles boat and skipper gets back on board. It appears an hour passed and the cruise boat makes contact. We are to understand that the TheMightyHobie18 could not be brought out of the turtle and righted. There is no mention of hyperthermia so they must have been dressed for the water temp.

Either no righting system was on the boat or they just didn't know how to right it.



Which supports the previous conclusion that the missing equipment were brains. Even one brain would have been enough.


Luiz
Re: Safety Quiz [Re: SurfCityRacing] #183675
06/30/09 11:45 AM
06/30/09 11:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606
League City, TX
flumpmaster Offline
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flumpmaster  Offline
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Posts: 606
League City, TX
Stuff to faciliate their own resuce:

1. Sealed mast and practice righting from turtle
2. A water bag for solo righting (if the skipper had not got back to the boat

Stuff to facilitate a rescue by others:
1. VHF radio - hail on Ch 16
2. SPOT or EPIRB
3. Flares
4. Cell phone in water proof bag (I use the $20 AT&T Go phone from Walmart - my AT&T sim card works in it).

I'm a little shocked at the rude comments by some of the posters on this thread. I'm sure you have probably done some foolish things yourselves in the past. Does anyone know what safety equipment (if any) was on board this boat?

To right a boat from turtle - get it on its side and then right as normal.

To get it from turtle onto its side take the righting line, pass under one hull and over the top (as you would if righting it from on its side). Then lean on the rope off the other hull. If your mast is sealed you will get the boat back up on its side. It can be a little akward maintaining footing on the curved hull surface while leaning out far enough to make her come back up.

I have seen people trying to both lean off the rear cross bar, or off the righting line direct from the dolphin striker without going round the other hull first. Neither approach seems succesful.

To check the seal on your mast, throw it in the water and see if bubbles come out. It should float. Correct leaks with a quality sealent and recheck. If your mast leaks then it can fill with water when you turtle and you may not be able to right it - even with assistance from a power boat. At that point you may have to derig the mast and sails, wrap the lot up, place it aboard and get towed the lot back to shore with the platform still upside down. (Don't ask me how I know this).

Chris.


Dave Ingram is my president. tcdyc rules
Re: Safety Quiz [Re: flumpmaster] #183676
06/30/09 11:52 AM
06/30/09 11:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
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ThunderMuffin Offline
Carpal Tunnel
ThunderMuffin  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
When you try to right from a turtle. Make sure you get on the stern of the "leward" hull. Your windage will push the boat sideways and the sails in the water will act as sea anchor - slowly lifting the boat to its side.

Re: Safety Quiz [Re: WindyHillF20] #183691
06/30/09 01:20 PM
06/30/09 01:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
SurfCityRacing Offline OP
old hand
SurfCityRacing  Offline OP
old hand

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749
Santa Cruz, CA
Originally Posted by WindyHillF20
Ok, boat flips and skipper gets seperated. Crew turtles boat and skipper gets back on board. It appears an hour passed and the cruise boat makes contact. We are to understand that the TheMightyHobie18 could not be brought out of the turtle and righted. There is no mention of hyperthermia so they must have been dressed for the water temp.

Either no righting system was on the boat or they just didn't know how to right it.

How much damage was done by the contact and was contact an hour after the initial flip or did they right it and flip again prior to the collision with the cruise boat?


Hypothermia was a factor, but the crew were dressed for the occasion. No initial damage by rescue efforts, there was no collision with cruising boat. They had a righting line.

Skipper released shroud pins when boat was upside down in an attempt to get it from turtle position.

I post things like this to get us all thinking. I think it's a good exercise to ponder all of the variables in a real-life rescue scenario.

J

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