| Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: JJ_]
#183751 07/01/09 02:16 AM 07/01/09 02:16 AM |
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 749 Santa Cruz, CA SurfCityRacing OP
old hand
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OP
old hand
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 749 Santa Cruz, CA |
You're a serious tease, J...
I left the story sort of vague to get everyone to think. There was no safety gear aboard except for a righting line, if you count that. There is a < 1 kt current running northward and the prevailing wind comes from the NW. But...the conditions don't matter, there were a few grave errors that we can all learn from no matter where or when we sail. I also highlighted a few things purposely. What about the time? Sailing a beachcat with no nav lights around dusk in the open ocean isn't the best approach if you want to keep living. Just a quick brainstorm and my assessment: Have a float plan of some kind. Have well maintained gear so that you can minimize your chance of an accidents in the first place. Sealed mast/ float. Good shrouds and anchors. Righting line that you know how to use. Blah, blah, blah. Have your personal kit ready to go when you need it. Knife, PFD, Wetsuit (or proper sailing gear) etc. That kid that recently died because he was tangled in the trap line could have easily been saved if he or his crew had a knife in their jacket pocket. (RIP, no disrespect). I talked to one of the guys that works with that team and he said the crew were frantically diving underwater to try and free him. One zip with a sharp knife on those Vectran trap lines and it would've possibly done the trick. And then, if all else fails and you can't self rescue. Call the coasties on your VHF. VHF is the beast bet because it's a direct line to the dudes that are coming out to get you. Most coastie boats, Harbor Patrol have Radio Direction Finders on board, which can aid in them finding you. Carry it ON YOU. Doesn't do you any good sailing away under trampoline power. Like that guy that spent 2 hours in the water last year while every agency and the Surf City Skiff was out looking. His boat was found on the rocks at 26th ave. He rescued it and sails it to this day WITH A RADIO. I won't even tell you about the guy that flipped his boat last week in a 35kt Northerly in shorts and a T-shirt and his VHF went straight to the bottom because it was stowed on the trampoline. Not in the pocket or tied, just sitting on the tramp. I see all kinds here. Be safe out there. J Edit: BTW I thought it was a brilliant move for the crew to turtle the boat to slow it down. Have you ever tried to find a head bobbing around in the water. I have. It's waaaay more difficult than looking for a canary yellow catamaran. | | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: SurfCityRacing]
#183764 07/01/09 06:41 AM 07/01/09 06:41 AM |
Joined: Feb 2009 Posts: 171 Cary, NC Storz
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 171 Cary, NC | Excellent posts, lots of really good information in here for the newbies (i.e. me!)
Ryan 1983 Isotope
| | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: Storz]
#183767 07/01/09 06:54 AM 07/01/09 06:54 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 | "there are old sailors and bold sailors, there are no old, bold sailors"- anon. "the time to reef is the first time it occurs to you."- anon. The decision to leave shore is yours alone. Some days it's best to just beach comb. http://www.spc.noaa.gov/faq/tornado/beaufort.html
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: Karl_Brogger]
#183779 07/01/09 08:31 AM 07/01/09 08:31 AM | andrewscott
Unregistered
| andrewscott
Unregistered | thanks for the details, make perfect sense now
This thread could be a life saver to someone, someday... Yeah, capsizing in 85* water that's 3 feet deep scares the crap outta me too. Hey Karl,it gets REAL BAD HERE TOO! i could capsize and get a real bad jelly fish sting... and it could get infected. hehe... just cause it was a "chamber of commerce" day when you were here ... its not all fun and sun! I have been hit with 40-45mph squall lines, we have lost dozens of cats all lined up on the causeway pre-race (mini twister) and i have a good friend who had to take rescue from weather in the mangroves... only to watch a water spout pick up his dart20 and take it for a "SPIN" in the gulf of Mehico. The weather channel came down to re-create and film that one... | | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: SurfCityRacing]
#183782 07/01/09 08:45 AM 07/01/09 08:45 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | J
Back in the day, we did have a public beach where everyone trailered in to go sailing. As a newbie, I could meet other sailors, and I learned a lot by talking to the old guys. Most were recreational sailors (not racers) and they had a lot of invaluable experience.
My current beach is very different. Nobody asks questions. I only butt in when I am sure somebody will get hurt... (Like trying to step the mast without the shrouds attached.)
Did culture change that much??
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#183784 07/01/09 09:07 AM 07/01/09 09:07 AM | andrewscott
Unregistered
| andrewscott
Unregistered | J My current beach is very different. Nobody asks questions. I only butt in when I am sure somebody will get hurt... (Like trying to step the mast without the shrouds attached.) The first time i brought my new (to me) h16 to the dunedin causeway (10 years ago), i had 4 or 5 people walk up to me and talk to me about how to rig it, and talk to me about the area. that always stuck with me... We still have new guys walk up and ask us for help/rigging/best areas to sail questions etc... So that culture is still alive here... | | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#183790 07/01/09 09:25 AM 07/01/09 09:25 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | J
Back in the day, we did have a public beach where everyone trailered in to go sailing. As a newbie, I could meet other sailors, and I learned a lot by talking to the old guys. Most were recreational sailors (not racers) and they had a lot of invaluable experience.
My current beach is very different. Nobody asks questions. I only butt in when I am sure somebody will get hurt... (Like trying to step the mast without the shrouds attached.)
Did culture change that much?? Mark, You NOT butt in, c'mon. Actually, I think the intarweb may have replaced alot of the questions of yore. People get on a site like this and can get a bunch of different opinions. Unfortunately ,there is no way to qualify those opinions. Posters can post whatever they want whether it makes sense or comes from experience or not.If you've been around here long you start to be able to tell the seasoned from the inexperienced, sadly it seems the inexperienced voices are often the first to pipe up. Todd
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: TeamChums]
#183797 07/01/09 09:55 AM 07/01/09 09:55 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | You can tell it, I don't feel like typing that much.Plus someone's feelings might get hurt.Not you,Lee, you don't have any.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#183799 07/01/09 10:05 AM 07/01/09 10:05 AM | andrewscott
Unregistered
| andrewscott
Unregistered | You can tell it, I don't feel like typing that much.Plus someone's feelings might get hurt.Not you,Lee, you don't have any. Lighten up Francis! | | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: _flatlander_]
#183810 07/01/09 10:43 AM 07/01/09 10:43 AM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
veteran
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veteran
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | [quote=mbounds]Get all your crew weight on the downwind aft corner of the boat (sitting). The opposite front corner will start to lift, wind will get underneath the trampoline and it will slowly come up to the capsized position. Then right as usual.
Sounds like an elegant trick Matt. What boats have you successfully used this technique on? Something makes me think this may work better on a shorter platform with less flotation at the ends, but I'm happy to be educated otherwise. works on a Hobie 20, don't ask me how I know and...it was kind of windy that day Worked on a Hobie 21 racing version (with spi), Supercat 17, Hobie 16... I guess it works for most -if not all- beach cats.
Luiz
| | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: Luiz]
#183813 07/01/09 10:49 AM 07/01/09 10:49 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 606 League City, TX flumpmaster
addict
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addict
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 606 League City, TX | Worked on a Hobie 21 racing version (with spi), Supercat 17, Hobie 16... I guess it works for most -if not all- beach cats.
Thanks Luiz. I look forward to giving this technique a go the next time the unthinkable happens. I guess you need some decent breeze to make it work, but then again that is typically when turning turtle is more likely. Chris. | | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: TeamChums]
#183862 07/01/09 02:53 PM 07/01/09 02:53 PM | DougSnell
Unregistered
| DougSnell
Unregistered | Lee:
No problem. It was just a scary day. Guy should of had a PFD that fit. Todd had his hands full with righting the boat and it was real SCARY not being able to find the guy in the chop. When I finally pulled his %&*%^%&( weight up on the Mystere 4.3 he was exhausted and white as a sheet. Thank God we found him. People should always have a PFD that fits are stay on the beach in ruff weather. Least we all lived to sail another day. Really miss the Dike, hope they can get it back some day. If you ever want a crew for the Wed nights, let me know.
Doug
Last edited by DougSnell; 07/01/09 02:53 PM.
| | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: ]
#183863 07/01/09 03:14 PM 07/01/09 03:14 PM | andrewscott
Unregistered
| andrewscott
Unregistered | getting back on a boat after falling off is an entirely different can of worms... i was so exhausted after righting i almost couldn't get on my cat... and my jib filled w/air and i was steaming toward a rocky seawall... | | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: brucat]
#183872 07/01/09 03:41 PM 07/01/09 03:41 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 | Not if the jib is drawing. Don't ask me how I know.
If strength alone fails, you must get the boat head to wind and lose all way.
Get in the gym, gain the necessary strength.
Last edited by pgp; 07/01/09 03:45 PM.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Safety Quiz
[Re: brucat]
#183879 07/01/09 03:53 PM 07/01/09 03:53 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 | By the time I decided to try the loop, I was already tired and wobbly. In the end, I swam around to the outside of the boat, near the shroud, grabbed the trap. handle and managed to get aboard using legs and arms.
The time spent in the gym is by far the better solution. Now, I practice "porposing" onto the boat each time I go out.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
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