What a great idea. It would be a shame to see those racehorses just retired forever. It would take little work but you could start a new class like "water spouts" or "twisters".

That's exactly what the P-19 was . Randy wanted a road width Tornado. I guess the length was paired down to sync up with the righting moment and rig.
I think you'd be wasting time and money and fragmenting an already dwindling fleet, cutting up a Tornado. Not to mention it'd be grounds for a serious beatdown. The Tornado is the way it is for a reason.

I'm just say'n, if you really want to get an F20 class up and running, and you already have all these great boats, why not use them? Yeah, it might take a little time, effort and creativity but the Tornado guys are pretty good at that already.

Add in the P 19's and the Hobie 20's (with a "F20 class size" spinny) and you have a F20 class ready to go.

Reg White did. It's called a Hurricane 5.9. OK, Hurri is only 8 feet wide with slightly different hull shape; but that was the plan...

As said, similar to P19

I think the addition of another wider 20' boat is a great. My thought is that if you create an F20 class, it should be 10' or 12' wide. Other than that you just have a long F18. My boat only takes less than a couple extra hours to set up and less than that to tear down. The 10' wide boats can be trailered without disassembly.

Wider is Better!!!

And you could call it a P19

If you could develop telescoping beams that were as rigid as standard beams, you could more easily breakdown a Tornado. I think that I am finally going to get a tilt trailer this year so that I sail the Tornado more often.

Problem is that you add weight for no real gain as you still have to take the tramp off.

Takes an hour longer to bolt a wide boat together.

IMO, the ultimate 20 footer is:

20 feet long
12-3 feet wide (M20 Vampire 12).
120-140kg (The M20V is 142).
Mainsail 21sqm ish
Jib 6ish
Spi 26-27ish
Curved Plates
T foil Rudders

Why do you think this?

There is no evidence that anyone wants to give up anything to form a F20 class. The idea has been tried and it failed, restarting it in the USA has also failed. A consensus around a common standard never evolved.

The N20's would prefer to race one design in distance and buoy racing and class members have said that they don't care if the F18 is as fast as the N20's. They don't want a sail measurement rule which would drive constant change in the sails. They want to be a SMOD class for the big boys. They do not see level racing with Olympic Tornado's as racing on a fair playing field.

The other 20 footer class... the Olympic Tornado is just praying for the IOC to raise it from the dead boat society in the Olympic medal decision to be made this August.

There are no US long distance races that is driving the owning of boats you want to race for line honors. The existing line honor boats in the USA are the Supercat 22 (several of them), the two Marstrom 20's and the single CFR 20 stay home in Florida and don't compete in the races open to them around the country. They all can be thumped by a well sailed RC 27 which enters the race.

In the EU, the Marstrom 20, Ventilo 20, Eagle 20, Macca's Super Taipan and various modifications to the Tornado. battle for the two man distance race line honor lead. It makes sense for Nacra to build a boat to compete in these races.

Remember, also that the EU has a viable 28 foot class. The Ventilo M2 Class. (three man teams). A viable 35 foot class, the Decision 35 and of course, the Ishares 40 class. (4 person teams). These boats will win line honors if allowed to enter.

BUT...wouldn't the T foil rudders be working against the curved plates? Unless they were trimmed to lift the back of the boat. I was under the impression they (T foil rudders) are there to keep from pitchpoling, or are you saying the whole boat should be a foiler? That would be very nice to see!

Mark, you are so right, I don't know what I was thinking...must be the meds. ;^) Have a good 4th.

T foils to prevent "sailing over" the curved plates.

a 20 x 12 or 13 platform is going to create a LOT of drive down wind. The big stuff it's going to be a challenge to keep the mast out of the racetrack.

"The big stuff it's going to be a challenge to keep the mast out of the racetrack."

I agree with that idea, but we just don't get that kind of wind and waves over here in the states. Maybe up on the north west pacific coast, it gets pretty windy and rough up there, but not so much on the east coast or in southern Cal.

I thought I had seen big wind and waves, having grown up on the seacoast of New Hampshire, just about 50 miles north of Boston. But then I saw the waves (20' plus) and winds (blowing 65) in Brighton and Dublin...WOW, you guys get some really nasty stuff over there sometimes! I've always thought that's why the I20 didn't catch on over there.

20 foot Tornado foiler? They flew/sailed them in UK in 1973. Called Icarus I. International Hydrofoil Society archives has the whole/old story.

I thought I had seen big wind and waves, having grown up on the seacoast of New Hampshire, just about 50 miles north of Boston. But then I saw the waves (20' plus) and winds (blowing 65) in Brighton and Dublin...WOW, you guys get some really nasty stuff over there sometimes! I've always thought that's why the I20 didn't catch on over there.


How about south of the Isle of Wight when they had the combined Nacra Tornado UK National at Ventnor. That was the day my old N 6 entered the "green room" somewhere around Bembridge Ledge (maype?) East of Wight on the way back to Stokes Bay-wildest small boat sailing of my life. My second wake up that day. The first was when Wil Sunnuck's T nearly took my head off in a P S (My fault). I am looking to meet informed 6.0 NA jockeys here in Houston or Austin Texas as I work up my dry stored for 10 years Nacra whilst considering what big boys boat to replace it with (or even if I can be bothered). Who has a used square top Nacra 6.0NA main for me to buy? If it works for me I may well just keep it as F20 seems to be going nowhere fast

Actually, before you look into upgrading the rig... or boat.

Take a look at the races that you might want to do.... The scene is quite a bit different now. Pick the option that gets you to the events that you would schedule.

If you're in Texas, we still have a good group of N20's. Infact 9 are registered to do Ruff Riders Labor Day Weekend. There are a few N6.0s in the area but not really racing. They do show up to do the distance stuff sometimes. Cat Alley is the place where the 6.0 still fits in great. Lots of Nacras there on the weekends.

Todd Bouton had a square top 6.0NA main on his 6.0. He sold the boat to someone in the Houston area who seems to sail it with the pin head main - so the square top may be available. You could post on tcdyc to try and track it down.

I read this forums for some years and never feld the urge to post a topic but I think this is interesting, I visited Nacra Europe today to pick up some new lines; ended up talking to Peter [Tech director] and another [english speaking]guy about this extreme wide [my guess wider then 3 mtr/10ft] due to the fact that they were working/discussing on the boat holding a [big!] curved daggerboard. They were not giving out to much info but when I asked if this had to do with a new boat, both guys were laughing. The boat istself was [other then the hulls] brand new, the mast which was laying on the ground was way longer then anything standard. when I took a picture they were relaxed about[I couldn't upload them, I will try later]. All in all not so spectacular but later I found out [via the workshop guys] that the "other guy"was a designer from melvin & morelli!!

what do you all think?

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