| Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: Sunvista]
#190956 09/14/09 03:46 PM 09/14/09 03:46 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | When you lift the tiller arm, the pin bears against the end of the hook, the hook flexes, releasing the tiller arm, but not rotating the cam.
When you come in to the beach, the force of the bottom pushes the tip of the rudder aft, forcing the pin into the corner of the hook, releasing the tiller arm AND rotating the cam to the unlocked position. HUH? You've just reworded my earlier post #190696. Up cam force bad....forward cam thrust good. In my case there was no slop so lifting or releasing the tiller arm didn't rotate the (chinzy plastic gusseted) cam...it just broke it off at the hook. One thing for certain, shearing a $15 plastic cam is clearly preferable to fracturing a $250 rudder. Either one will sit you on the beach though. No, I didn't. IF the pin is not seated in the corner of the hook when the rudder is locked down, THEN lifting straight up on the tiller arm will bend the hook and release the tiller arm without rotating the cam. The old style (non-adjustable) rudder castings are a PITA to deal with. You've got to get the holes in the rudder just right for them to work properly. | | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: Sunvista]
#190960 09/14/09 04:44 PM 09/14/09 04:44 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,252 California mmiller
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veteran
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,252 California | lifting or releasing the tiller arm didn't rotate the (chinzy plastic gusseted) cam...it just broke it off at the hook. One thing for certain, shearing a $15 plastic cam Grease is a cams friend. Failure to grease is what fails them... and they are only $7.50 | | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: Tim H16]
#190999 09/15/09 06:58 AM 09/15/09 06:58 AM |
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 99 Virginia Beach Sunvista
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 99 Virginia Beach | Even though I have corrected the helm, slop and "break away" spring tension.... Hey, if it works...don't fix it. I thought about doing the silicone caulk with cellophane trick but I was worried that a blob of caulk, after it cured, would block access to the delrin adjuster screw. I'm still not totally convinced the cam is designed to rotate by lifting the rudder arm. That's a lot of leverage at the weakest point of a plastic part. In fact, I believe the cams are gusseted plastic and not brass or stainless for a reason. So that they will ultimately shear under stress and not destroy the rudders or castings. | | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: Tim H16]
#191024 09/15/09 09:25 AM 09/15/09 09:25 AM |
Joined: Dec 2005 Posts: 321 Albuquerque NM Banzilla
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 321 Albuquerque NM | I may also try following the section in David Hall's article where he shows how using RTV and plastic wrap on the lower rudder casting I did this earlier in the season. I was able to get one of the rudders perfect the first time out and the other is still not working properly. Since I have to do a bottom job on one of the hulls now, I am planning a trying the RTV trick again. This time I think I am going to clean out all of the RTV, redrilling the rudder and than applying the RTV. Whereas I had applied the RTV and than Drilled the rudder before. Sam
[b] Sail Like you have a Pair
| | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: mbounds]
#191184 09/17/09 08:23 AM 09/17/09 08:23 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921 Alachua, FL |
No. You really only need the upper casting.
You don't even need a new upper casting. It is pretty easy to remove the fixed crosspin, cut a slot and fit the adjustable cam plate and screw. I have done this to two older boats with no problems. To cut the slot simply drill a hole where each end should be, drill as many similar holes in between those as you can and file out the remaining metal to form the slot. Borrow a later casting to use as a guide if you can. To complete the job, you might want to drill and tap the lower casting for the small rake adjusting screw, but I'm not sure how important that is. Matt Bounds might have an opinion.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: Mugrace72]
#191770 09/23/09 10:29 AM 09/23/09 10:29 AM |
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 7 Panama City Beach, FL Tim H16
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 7 Panama City Beach, FL | Cutting the slot in the top of the castings would not be that difficult. The old style castings do not have any raised edges for the cam plate to slide on. How did you solve that?
Tim '82 H16 Sail #88863 Blue Prism
| | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: mbounds]
#192466 10/01/09 11:35 AM 10/01/09 11:35 AM |
Joined: Aug 2009 Posts: 7 Panama City Beach, FL Tim H16
stranger
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stranger
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 7 Panama City Beach, FL | Thanks Matt for the advice.
I just replaced my old upper rudder castings with a nice used set of adjustable upper rudder castings from PreSailed Parts. What a difference, the cams unlock when you lift the tiller now and I was able to rake the rudders more so the weather helm is just right with a raked mast.
Tim '82 H16 Sail #88863 Blue Prism
| | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: touchngo]
#195541 11/06/09 12:08 PM 11/06/09 12:08 PM | AV8RSailor
Unregistered
| AV8RSailor
Unregistered | Sounds to me like it would be simpler to find some new or used castings. The newer adjustible ones seem to be a huge improvement.
Antony | | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: touchngo]
#196404 11/15/09 04:56 PM 11/15/09 04:56 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Was looking at the You Tube vid and got me to thinking. The axle holes for the CAMS in my castings have become eliptical over time, so that the CAMS can move about quite a bit. Has anyone got suggestions on how to repair them? Should I drill out and use a bigger set screw for the axle (or whatever kind of screw thing that it is) or fill it all in with epoxy and redrill (will epoxy even bond with the casting)?
Appreciate any comments you may have.
Cheers, PT. Do a Google search for HTS-2000 brazing rods. Never personally used the stuff, but for a small repair like that, they sound like the ticket. | | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: Tim H16]
#196841 11/18/09 03:52 PM 11/18/09 03:52 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Cutting the slot in the top of the castings would not be that difficult. The old style castings do not have any raised edges for the cam plate to slide on. How did you solve that? Sorry for the late response. When I did it the first time I had never seen the inside of the factory adjustable arms. When I installed the plate and tightened the bolt, I relized that it needed a spacer of some sort, so I just stacked a few SS washers until it was standing proud enough to engage in the cam. It worked perfectly and it was only when I bought a newer boat that I saw the cast-in rails inside the arm.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: rudderd locking mechanism
[Re: ]
#289091 04/04/19 10:39 AM 04/04/19 10:39 AM |
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 125 Clinton, Mississippi rattlenhum
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 125 Clinton, Mississippi | That certainly sounds doable and easier/cheaper than the old EX Raker. A few thoughts (that you may have already considered): If, like many old boats, there's excessive slop in other parts of the system (gudgeons, rudder pins, holes in castings for the rudder pins), this mod may not be real helpful in and of itself. It's hard to describe well in words, but, if there's slop elsewhere and the new slot is wide enough, it will likely be possible to slide the new bolt so far forward in relation to the pin/sister screws on which the cam rides that the cam will not have enough clearance to rotate properly. (This can occur with the modern adjustable system and the EZ Raker as well.) If adjusted with the rudder locked down, the cam will be bound and not rotate up; if adjusted with the rudder up, the bolt will be blocked before the cam is rotated all the way down. In such case if the bolt is slid back enough for proper cam rotation, the rudder will likely still trail back due to the excessive slop elsewhere causing unwanted tiller load. I guess the bottom line is that this mod cannot remove excessive slop located elsewhere in the system. While the rudder should lock/unlock better than it does now, this mod may not fully achieve the desired result without new rudder pins and/or gudgeon/casting bushings. The length of the new bolt that will be inside the casting should not be threaded (for increased shear strength and minimization of damage to the cam). This sounds like a lot of work, but for a great cause. Perhaps a local machine shop would contribute (free or reduced cost) services toward all of the needed mods in exchange for some public recognition? I believe your idea has a lot of merit and would like to hear others' thoughts.....maybe you should revive this old Hobie Forum thread?: https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=63204Good luck and please let us know how this works out!
Jerome Vaughan Hobie 16 Clinton, Mississippi
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