I think the solution is simple to the youth problems.

Stop scheduling so many damn "Cat only" regattas.

When we sailed at Reggae Regatta, I'm POSITIVE I could have gotten the whole damn youth fleet that was out there bobbing around out on our cats and they'd be hooked.

What we really need is about 100 more volunteers like Barb Short who will go to every big Yacht Club in the country and set up a youth cat program starting with young kids on Waves, then move them up to something a little bigger, with a spin, and then up to the Tiger once they have figured it out.

It only takes two things, time and money...oh, and we need to clone Barb x 100!

By my calcs the Tiger design will be more than 20 years old by 2016.... Is that what we want as a representation at the games of multihull sailing??

Don't get me wrong, I think there are many pro's for the Tiger being in there but now we have a clear opportunity to do it right!

I would like the see a new design that is suitable for both men and women that embraces the new shape hull designs, new rigs and even foils... as well as keeping costs reasonable. By keeping cost reasonable I mean both entry and running costs (longevity is part of that)

How about licensing the design to multiple builders so there is a natural check on pricing instead of SMOD prices that can get out of hand?

John

As you are VP for the Americas in the F18 council I´ll give you my opinon from down south.

If we can´t get one spot, I doubt isaf is going to give us two events. To me it should remain open, we don´t need a better example that Carolijn being a top racer in Tornado and F18 , besides being T class president too.

The Tiger was the boat for 2012 if F18 was selected, for 2016, we need an updated boat, you name it: Infusion, Wildcat, Capricorn II...

As the crew feeds will come from the F18 multibrand class there´s no problem with getting specific model fleets, those campaigning will use the boat selected and will race one o one against other F18s.

Based on that, we need an updated design which show the evolution of multihull racing.
Tiger was the one for 2012, now we have more time and we should elect a new boat to reflect what we are and will be sailing in the future.

Cheers Martin,
F18 Argentina

****!

This is not a problem that a single cloned superwoman can solve.

Solutions require a community of sailors who support her leadership and help her make it happen.

After 40 years or so... you would think that the USA would have at least one club that has a strong nationally recognized catamaran racing junior program.

B... is thinking ISAF is going to award two medals for cats
Super woman? did you review the crews at F18 Worlds??

Macca, I'm with you.



I don't think the tiger is really representative of current technology. This is similar to another sport that my wife and I are involved in, 3-day eventing. They Olympics are supposed to be a pinnacle event for whatever sport you're involved in. Eventing is being "dumbed down" to continue to be in the Olympics. I don't think you're dumbind down with the Tiger, but I think you're moving away from a "Pinnacle" type of event b/c you're going to an old boat. (I don't need to hear how the tiger is still competative with other F18's, it's still being built with old technology while there is newer, faster stuff out there)

Mark was responding to Timbo's post not yours.

Carry on.

OK, sorry there Mark.

But I could remark my thought that we don´t need two events, I mean we have nothing right now, Hobie 16 fleets are almost 50-50 and at the F18 we are having lots of women racing.

One Open event and an updated F18.

What are the Olympics supposed to be the pinnacle of, athleticism/talent or equipment development?

Yes, the Tiger is aging. As are all the other designs (Lasers, Stars, etc.). But, at the end of the day, they could run Optis and still the best sailor would win and be crowned an Olympic champion.

Mike

you could run Optis and the lightest/best sailor would win...

The Olympics is about the best, sometimes the best is not the most advanced (like the Laser) but for a high performance class it should be as good as we can do within reasonable limits.

We have a blank canvas here to work with, why paint it in old stuff when we can create a boat that is the perfect Olympic boat? then, with proper management we will never have this crazy situation arise again where multihulls are not in the games.

Of all the Olympic Classes, the Tiger is one of the youngest. Only the RSX and 49er are younger (and the 49er by only by a year). I'm not counting the Elliot 6m, either. It's JAK (just another keelboat - no new technology).

Star - 99 years old (1910)
Finn - 60 years old (1949)
470 - 46 years old (1963)
Laser - 38 years old (1971)
49er - 13 years old (1996)
RSX - 4 years old (2005)

To exclude the Tiger because "it's not the current state of design technology" is a BS argument.

It's already an International Class (a requirement), the mfg has agreed to provide boats (a huge committment) and the Tiger Class gets a significant reason to continue its existence for the next 7 years.

This has win written all over it.

<****!

This is not a problem that a single cloned superwoman can solve.

Solutions require a community of sailors who support her leadership and help her make it happen.

After 40 years or so... you would think that the USA would have at least one club that has a strong nationally recognized catamaran racing junior program.

I would be more worried that ISAF define the disicpline as High performance sailing then what multihull to pick


singlehanded (laser)
double handed (470)
windsurfer
keel boat (star. E..)
High Performance (not multihull)

The women's skiff (29ner) and the men's 49ner would make more sense then mens and women's tigers. Calling it High performance sailing will leave the catamaran out in the cold again...

Bob is correct... we will be killed again unless we can develop a viable women's multihull circuit.... ASAP!

It is in NO way a requirement for the class to be an "international class" if that were the case then the RSX, 49er and Elliot 6 would not have been considered....

maybe you are right though... we should aim for mediocre just like the rest of the boats in there...

So in a perfect world you would choose a Tiger as the Olympic boat??? come on man! think outside the box a little.

This is an opportunity to do a great thing for multihull sailing and you are suggesting we go backwards just because everyone else is doing it...

And the Tornado is how old again?

I was under the impression that the Olympic boats had to be "readily available world wide" or some such thing, at least that was some of the reasoning when they brought in the Laser. If that is still a requriement, no "New Technology" type cat will qualify, but the Hobie 16 has been around long enough to qualify.

My idea was to use a single manufacturer to supply all the boats for the games, brand new, same for all, Hobie might be the only company big enough to do that, and the Tiger could work, and then sell them at a discount afterwards.

How many Tornado teams were there in an average Olympics? You could even use the same Tigers for the Men and Women, alternate days, or one week for each. Small sails, big sails, etc. It would level the playing field much like the Alter Cup.

The hulls on the Tornado are an older design, but the rig is carbon and most of the other components are as good as you can buy so in many respects the Tornado is very much up to date. most of the development in the Tiger class can be directly attributed to the Tornado.... Self tacking jib, Spi snuffer systems...

If the this "pinnacle of the sport" was run for the sailors, I would be all for finding the best, most challening, most exciting gear to showcase our sport. The games are not for the sailors unfortunately, it is about media and running the event itself. The event have grown to be larger than the participants and their "friendly" competition. Forget about the olympic ideals, think event management and media.
That is why the Hobie Tiger makes perfect sense. It is spectactular enough for the media. It makes financial sense for all parties (except the sailors if SMOD prices takes off) and there you have it. As you might have guessed, I am not a big fan of what the olympic games have become.

I'm in favour of the Tiger as an Olympic multihull class - and not just because I sail one (I race F-18 class - not Tiger OD apart from the Tiger Worlds).

The performance differences between the F-18 boats are not huge, and the Tiger is already an established ISAF class. I think selling F-18 as the Olympic class would be problematic - more potential for 'secret weapon' type development like some of the recent Tornado history - which is not what ISAF want out of an Olympic Class.

The equipment is cheaper to buy (I know boats are a small part of campaign costs and a Tornado will likely last longer than a tiger) - which addresses one criticism levelled at the Tornado.

I can't see how making the Tiger the Olympic boat would hurt the F-18 class. A lot of folk at the top of the class are on other platforms - and seem to think there is some small edge in this (or why change?) - do we think a bunch of Olympic sailors are going to get Tigers (with Tiger class sails from Hobie) going quicker than Infusions/Wildcats/Capricorns and ruin the class some how?

Someone in this thread made a comment about less 'Cat Only' regattas as a way of increasing exposure to catamarans and getting youth excited about sailing cats. I think that is a great idea. We attended the Buzzard Bay regatta with over 100 420s and a ton of lasers and the F-18s got a lot of attention blasting out through the crowds on the way to the course. Growing youth participation is a separate discussion though from supporting John's proposal or making constructive comments / counter proposals.

Chris.