Im sorry, but the B class was strong very successful class.. I recall fleets at my own club being 30 plus boats.. Admittedly the sailing numbers have died over the years. But within 8 years this B class has split and the Ts sailed their own fleet.. The rest is history..

Now coming back to present.. Assuming the "gun" will hope to be in the Olympics.. So he/she MUST have a Tiger.. He/She will need to sail in the "olympic class events"! So how many F18 class platforms will the "Gun" need? So again why will "Bundy and Ashby, Mitch Booth" promote the Wildcat when they need to be training on the Tiger?

I think that platform selection is a bit early in this discussion. The real question is how to look ahead, promote and develop sailors for 2016. Youth training programs, existing sailors who might still want to compete seven years from now and so-on.

Actually a lot sooner then that!... more like 2012 after the games. ISAF will vote on the 2016 disciplines, have an equipment selection trial if needed and then the vote on the equipment.

Multihulls will need to at least match the world wide acceptance and participation of the 29ner for women's high performance sailing in order to have some chips at the table.

Windswept... do you think that the Olympic boat should be part of a strong widely accepted world wide class... (eg the laser or F18 or Hobie 16) or should it be an elite boat that Olympic hopefuls campaign on the Olympic circuit ... (like the tornado campaigns of the last 8 to 12 years or the 49ner )....very separate from the normal fleet racing in sailing.

Mark

there was no 49er fleet either

You all seem to think everybody will go out and buy a Tiger,lets stop and think of the long term scenario.

At the moment there are a lot of pro's and semi pro's racing a number of different types because they are being paid to as a winning boat means market share. If the Tiger becomes the defacto boat ( as it will if selected as the olympic boat) do you think Hobie Corp is going to employ all those now redundant pro sailors as a gesture of goodwill. I don't think so and that will leave a lot of sailors looking for olympic sponsorship of which only the top 3 or 4 from a few countries will get. That will then mean a lot of top guns are going to be unemployed and not able to afford the costs of the olympic boat.

Guess what, a number of pro's will retire from the sport and thus there will be a lot less F18's about which in turn will mean less boats sold by all manufacturers including Hobie. Eventually we will get to the Marstrom tornado situation where very few boats are sold to a very select few with diminshing second hand availability.

All we have done by selling our soul to get Olympic status is to kill off our vibrant F18 class ( which is probably our biggest fleet ) to allow a few hopeful medalists in a once in 4 years competition.

My gut feeling is that we should be saying sorry but we don't want to get involved in the Olympics but pushing our own World Cup series ( let it be known that this is the Olympic medal of catamaran racing ) where there are opportunities for all in a class being strengthened by numbers and availability of good used second hand boats ( hand me downs from the Pro teams ).

Check with Jaimie Livingston and Miami Yacht Club if you want the truth.

If we do not develop junior multihull sailing programs soon within the US Sailing and American yacht club infrastructure - who will represent us in the Games, 2016? Smyth, Notary, Glaser, Lovell, Ogletree - where are they now?

I claim we need to belay worry over equipment and work on recruitment.

Bert Rice, Secretary US Sailing MHC

In 2016 I'll be 68 y.o. I'm interested in good quality events now!

My schedule is full through 1/10. What's on the agenda after that?

Stingray.... but only just.

http://www.stingraycatamaran.com/

So are hobie also going to supply a boat to every tom, dick and harriette that wants to campaign for the Olympics in the preceding 4 years???

"Supplied equipment" is becoming a buzz word in sailing circles and nothing more. If you want to compete at the Olympics, you will need to buy and maintain atleast 1, if not 2, of whatever class you choose JUST TO GET SELECTED!!!

You are falling for the marketing hype if you think supplied equipment will keep campaign costs down.

What a farce!

That's not the point of supplied equipment. Supplied equipment is supposed to level the playing field. You don't have incidents like John Dane getting a special light air Star built or the "Chupacabra" upwind spinnaker controversy in the Tornado class.

""Supplied equipment" is becoming a buzz word in sailing circles and nothing more. If you want to compete at the Olympics, you will need to buy and maintain atleast 1, if not 2, of whatever class you choose JUST TO GET SELECTED!!!"

Nick, I'm not sure about your point here.

Matt's right, whether it's a supplied boat or a more open OD class, in and of itself, that does not affect how many boats you need to maintain in order to qualify.

To be able to compete at the Olympic level, you need to be good. For some classes, this means training all over the world (if there isn't sufficient competition at home), so you can either borrow boats all the time or buy and maintain them on various continents.

AS far as "getting selected" there are pros and cons to the various ways that this is done around the world. In the USA, you just need to show up at a qualifier and win the event. Obviously, this is not easy, but if you're a good sailor on the platform (and are Olympic material), you have a great shot. For some classes, the competition in the US is good enough that you probably can win this without racing internationally (although it seems this practice is going the way of the Dodo).

Mike

Strictly speaking - loads of them qualify. The B class is one of the most open formulas ever written. In the early days it was mainly sharks and shearwaters both still fleet racing.

Cheshirecatman

Something a one design Tornado would fix. Does not have to be supplied equiptment but would not be a big deal for any of the big manufacturers to supply. Just like chartering a new boat out for a worlds and selling afterwards. I am sure it would be a lot easier selling a Games boat, then a Worlds boat.

I have no problem with an SMOD boat being chosen, as long as it is not mixed up with any forumla racing on the side.

Clean sheet of paper I say.

So if I turned up to a Shark or shearwater race with a "classic" Tornado, Manta or Quest I could sail for the title?

The fact is the T killed the B racing fleets..

You are talking about Australia. I don't think there ever was much if any B Class racing in the United States. We mostly had one-design racing and Portsmouth racing.

Theoretically yes. Now how many fleets has the F18 caused the demise of?

Thoughts for an olympic cat. Isaf creates a strict one-design hull, built out of wood maybe. All hardware is F18. Isaf supply strict one-design sails and total boat/crew weight is equalised. Crew can race wherever as F18 and set up as an Olympic cat with one-design hulls and one-design sails for the limited number of pre-olymic regattas. Would make olympic sailing cheaper and more widely accessible maybe as well as keeping talented sailors in the F18 fleets.

Cheshirecatman

I think just to keep costs in check, the Supplied Boats is the way to go, at the Olympic event only. Now, how do you select who will represent? I think the boat type selection should be announced at the prior Olympic, giving any interested teams a full 4 years to go out and buy one, and practice on it.

BUT for the actual Olympic regatta itself, use brand new, supplied boats, to level the feild a bit and keep the Arms Race type spendig in check. This is the one thing that I think hurt the Tornado class the most, the out of control spending to "keep up". If it is known 4 years in advance that a "stock boat" will be used for the next games, all the spending in the world won't give you any edge for the games.

The Selections, while each country is free to choose it's own method, might be best handled much like how we do the Alter Cup here in the USA. Take all the top sailors from all the active classes, put them all on the same boats, new (use the same boat as will be used in the Olympics) and have a week long regatta to sort it out. The top teams go to the Olympics.

Now, obviously if it is announced that the Tiger (or what ever) is going to be the -next- Olympic boat, the smart teams will go out and buy one to practice for 4 years, but when it comes time for Selections and the actual Olympic regatta itself, they will be on Stock Boats, not their own "modified" boats.

Maybe they could bring their own sails, maybe not, of course either way they would all have to be measured, and the boats would have to be inspected and weighed, just to be sure everyone has equal equipment.

This would keep the Olypic Campaign type expenses in check, but of course each country would have to pony up some "entry fee" just to pay for the use of the Olympic boat. They pay entry fees already, right?

For the sailors, it would be a whole lot cheaper than spending $50,000 on a Tornado, and the expense of trying to campaign it all over the world just to get selected. When the event is over, the boats and sails can be autographed and sold to the rest of us who want a nearly new Olympic quality boat at a discount.

It' supposed to be about who are the best sailors, not who can spend the most money, right?

I don't know what it would cost a big cat company like Hobie to supply say, 40-50 new boats for such an event (are there that many countries that put up sailing teams?), but they would generate some additional sales up front as soon as the "next boat" was announced, and of course they would then sell the boats afterwards, and each country would be paying some amount of money for the use of the boats as well.

Tim,

There were 15 Tornado teams at the 2008 Olympics. Figure 5 extra boats as spares = perhaps 20 new boats.

Mark,

Sorry I just found this post or I would have responded earlier. When the Tornado selection was done in 1967 catamarans were relatively knew to the scene of serious racing. You had some pretty innovative designers on hand a got a few really great designs out of the trials. I do not think we are at that point and time again. there are some truly wonderfull boats out on the scene right now with strong class associations behind them. I think that you can choose from an existing class, but that class has to be willing to committ to the rigors of being an Olympic class. I am not sure if there is a class out there that would be willing too. The F-18 class I think would split down the middle as to whether it wanted one of its boats to become an Olympic platform. Many think that the tiger is that platform. I am not sold on it, but I do not think that I will have much say in this matter anyway. If not the Tornado, I would support a more modern 20 footer at least for the men's selection. The M20 or V20 would do nicely. these boats are technically challenging and would push the sailors to stay at an elite level. I do think that this is an important part of the equation. As far as getting our act together, that begins today. I believe that the events vote is five years out from the games.

Sailing (Yachting) classes selected for 2012 Olympics:

Men’s One Person Dinghy – Laser
Men’s One Person Dinghy Heavy – Finn
Men’s Two Person Dinghy – 470
Men’s Two Person Dinghy High Performance – 49er
Men’s Windsurfer – RS:X
Men’s Keelboat – Star
Women’s One Person Dinghy – Laser Radial
Women’s Two Person Dinghy – 470
Women’s Keelboat Match Racing – Elliott 6m
Women’s Windsurfer – RS:X

It seems that rather than debate which Catamaran might be the proper platform to follow the Tornado into Olympic history (assuming that a tamed T doesn't re-emerge as TopCat), it makes more sense to try and understand and address the politicical dynamics of being selected to start with.

The controlling bodies seem to want tightly controlled classes that are have broad accessibility and appeal. The Star survives solely because of 100+ years in the barrel. They did fall from favor for one cycle, but resurfaced because of traditional sentiment. They are on thin ice now, however, because of lack of solid control over scantlings, which in fact is probably the root of the Tornado losing favor.

I believe that any "new" multihull must be simple, durable and available world-wide, truly one-design...and actively raced within the sailing community and not just the beach cat community.

A unified approach without internal strife and self-serving prejudices will go a long way toward reclaiming lost ground. I believe that the TCA was late in recognizing their peril and evolved into something that eclipsed the Olympic profile. Perhaps they have lost their chance, but we need to learn from that and not get too fancy if we get the chance again.

There used to be only five or six classes and now there are ten and we are hoping for eleven or twelve. Not likely. The numbers really got out of hand with gender duplicity...not that this is a bad thing. Do we really need Finns and Lasers or 470s and 49ers? However, all of these share a relative simplicity compared to the modern T, F18, or god forbid a tricked out M20.

We don't need to worry so much about whether the best cat sailors will be interested in a selected platform. We need a new stategy to reviatalize interest within the whole sailing community as well as with non-sailing sportsmen in general, in whose minds we are all sailing Hobie Cats.

I think a bigger issue might be whether sailing is still a viable sport in the eyes of some IOC luminaries. We don't often have a spectator friendly venue, although the Chinese did provide what looked like as good an arena as you could ever expect, even though the media couldn't capitalize on it.

The cost of providing such lavish venues may lose favor with economics as they are, and that won't help the spectator appeal and accessibility.

Maybe we belong in the X-Games?