[...]had a less than pleasant experience at a recent local event sailing as the odd boat out in a fleet of F18s.

Cat sailors are also quite susceptible to the "holier than thou" mindset.

I've had pro/coached teams use intimidation tactics against me during major Tornado events...including being screamed at to read the rules on port/starboard crossings (me on starboard); being told not to park under a boat on a starting line etc etc.

And it's not just these elite teams...had a less than pleasant experience at a recent local event sailing as the odd boat out in a fleet of F18s.

And it's not just these elite teams...had a less than pleasant experience at a recent local event sailing as the odd boat out in a fleet of F18s.

Mike, are you referring to Santa Barbara?

Mike:

Your a nice guy, but...

On a Tornado you are not on the same boat as the F18s. You and I have had numerous conversations about you sailing F18s...mostly me trying to convince you to be part of a big competitive fleet, on the same boat. You contend that you are more competitive with us when you are on your Tornado. I really would like you to be on the same boat for fair and direct competition, it would be way more fun that way. If you are looking to be competitive there is always someone nearby to find competition, if all things are equal. Sorry you are out of sorts about SB. In defense, that was one of the last regattas before we sail the North Americans in Long Beach so there was a bit of extra voltage on the course.

By the way I only found 2 F18 sailors that knew you were joining in the F18 racing. When I voiced my concerns one of those sailors assured me that you would not be in the way a minute after the start, since a T is so much faster...

Since you prefer sailing in a Portsmouth class, tell the race committee where you would like to race. I know there was a Hobie 20 sailing by themselves. All the other boats involved in that regatta made minimum numbers for class sailing. I think the guys on the 20 would have liked to sail against you at least to the weather mark.

Later,
Dan

Dan,

You are defending an indefensible position.

Let's hope your no class fleet is as wildly successful at the texas version. They figured out that it is lots more fun to welcome anything that floats and wonder at how much the owner loves it than to drive away those folks
and forever alienate them.

Sometimes the fleet with no class manages to crack 20 boats...while all the individual one design fleets have 15 or fewer.

It's great.

Wow. What is that? I haven't ever sen one before!!

What's that line for??

Suddenly you have a smiling new sailing friend.

If for some reason the sailor decides competition is more important than his prized toy...he will join the friendliest fleet.

It really is that simple.

89.2 Notice of Race; Appointment of Race Officials
(a) The organizing authority shall publish a notice of race that conforms
to rule J1.

J1 NOTICE OF RACE CONTENTS
J1.1 The notice of race shall include the following information:
(1) the title, place and dates of the race and name of the organizing authority;
(2) that the race will be governed by the rules as defined in The Racing Rules of Sailing;
(3) a list of any other documents that will govern the event (for example, The Equipment Rules of Sailing, to the extent that
they apply), stating where or how each document or a copy of it may be seen;
(4) the classes to race, any handicap or rating system that will be used and the classes to which it will apply, conditions of entry
and any restrictions on entries;
(5) the times of registration and warning signals for the practice race, if one is scheduled, and the first race, and succeeding
races if known.

Unfortunately, no, this is not just a monohull thing! Cat sailors are also quite susceptible to the "holier than thou" mindset.

And it's not just these elite teams...had a less than pleasant experience at a recent local event sailing as the odd boat out in a fleet of F18s.

It's kind of difficult to comment on your situation, Darryn, since we don't yet know the details, but I can comment on the question in a broader sense based on my own experience.

I too sailed the Santa Barbara Wine and Roses Regatta in the F-18 fleet, and I race my own cat in a variety of local regattas including those put on by ABYC where I am sharing the course with F-18s, H16 and A cats among others.

My advice is to minimize encounters with the dinghies/other fleets as much as possible. Anytime there are enough cats to merit your own start you should request it. With your own start the RC should be able to put enough distance between you and the dinghy fleet to avoid encounters at mark roundings and upwind or down. Whenever possible I would avoid starting in any start that includes a class fleet.

Everyone loses when you mix it up with another class. You foul them (in terms of affecting their intra-class race) and even if you win... what are you winning? When you examine the purpose for them being on the course versus you, they are sailing a completely different race than you are - even if not thus represented on paper.

Sure you could press the rules, but this will only serve to aggravate the situation. It won't teach people the rules. Instead it will only encourage them to conclude something negative about you or about cat sailors in general.

The key thing to keep in mind is that your purpose for racing is quite different from the purpose that those sailing in a class have in mind when they sign up to race a regatta. They are out to compete between their group. You are not going to win friends by crashing that party. Better to find a group of people like you who want to race handicap. Then you, as part of that group (handicap fleet), are all on the race course for the same reason too.

Even if you do end up in a mixed (handicap) fleet, it's still not always easy. As an example, the last time I sailed my boat in an ABYC regatta, I overtook the three fleets/starts in front of me before I got to the weather mark. Each of those fleets that I overtook was a class start. Therefore I tried to be respectful of the competition within those fleets by not pressing my rights (e.g. P/S) except when not doing so would result in gassing the fleet for longer periods of time than by crossing.

I think a respectful and courteous attitude on the course in these situations will earn you more respect and a better time than pressing your rights at the cost of affecting the outcome of other fleets.

Mike's situation at Santa Barbara is a perfect example of this. While the F-18 fleet was happy to see another boat out on the water, the fact that Mike was mixing it up among the F-18 fleet up and down and forcing boats to make maneuvers that tactically they would otherwise not make, means that he was affecting the results of the F-18 fleet: a fleet that he was not even scored with. He was certainly not endearing himself by so doing. And frankly, I can't think of one person from the F-18 fleet who said, "I'm glad the Tornado is sailing with the F-18s." The outcome of this is that Mike walked away feeling unwelcome and the F-18 fleet felt imposed upon. Who wins in this situation?? No one. The RC should never have considered this, and Mike shouldn't have asked to sail with the F-18s.

The trouble here arose because neither the F-18 fleet organizers nor Mike considered that in reality the F-18s and Mike were there for different purposes. Only superficially did it make sense to mix the T in with the F-18s, and no one won out by doing this.

A good RC making good decisions is the best way to avoid these situations. If you still end up encountering other fleets on the course - just be considerate of why you are each there (i.e. if you're racing handicap on the same course as class fleets).

Respectfully,
Christopher

The trouble here arose because neither the F-18 fleet organizers nor Mike considered that in reality the F-18s and Mike were there for different purposes. Only superficially did it make sense to mix the T in with the F-18s, and no one won out by doing this.

You are trying to justify poor sportsmanship by some F18 racers just because Mike was not on a F18 but was officially in their class.

Harry Murphey

The NOR sets the expectations for the regatta ... When they are not even stated.. much less met... upsets occur. It's a little late to resolve this at the skippers meeting after you have traveled and set your boat up.... at this point you are going to be upset before you get wet.

It's a good bet that the OA wanted as many boats to attend as possible since it was an annual fund raiser for a charity. The OA is interested in generating a good regatta for ALL of the participants... not just the biggest class... so the OA's goal is that ALL racers will return next year and hopefully bring more boats.

From the OA's point of view... marginalizing boats that don't make class at the skippers meeting probably means they won't be back next year.

Sounds like you need some ground rules beyond a proper NOR. EG if you want a OD fleet... best have 10?? boats registered one week in advanced and have it published... otherwise the OA will group like boats and score you on handicap (no matter how many class members show). This process would let the odd Portsmouth boat make up their mind if it's a race they want to compete in before the registration deadline. Likewise, the OD class can only grumble about their fleet members who did not register in time or also choose to not show if it's not a OD race of their standards.

Set and meet expecations = no upsets!

When I race at the club Mosquitos have there own start, we usually get 10 or so Mosquitos and often we are the largest class.

For example approaching windward mark on starboard tack with 200 metres to go and a Sharpie comes in on port, refusing to give ROW...

Rearranging the order of the starts doestn't fix the problem with races lasting 90 minutes...

...I'm talking about other classes blatantly ignoring the ROW rules because I am sailing a catamaran.

Darryn

it was a bad decision by the RC.