Yep. Sunday knocked the boat apart and stuffed it in the basement. Sunday night, and monday during the day we got snow. Its supposed to be 61*F for a high right now, it was 34*F all day yesterday. (sigh....) We didn't even have summer this year, two days it got above 90*F, and where was I? Setting trusses, and sheating a roof on a new house. Figures....

In February I'll be going to the bighorns snowmobiling again. That was fun, but the place we stay at is at 8500ft elevation, and most of the riding is that or higher. One spot I pulled out the GPS and we were at 96xx ft! Going from 1200ft elevation at home to that is rough on me. I sleep like a rock though.

We need volunteers to work the GC. I have rum.

Since I'm not going the Hobie Mega, I was planning on going to the GC, but then the remodel I'm working on got going later than I'd like, and I'm scheduled to be installing cabinets that week. That and I haven't sold the FXone yet, so no Viper for me yet.

Cheers!

WTF.

The cabinets will still be there when you get back.
1 week in FL during November will last you a long time during those dark misserably cold MN winter days.

As a bit of Bitsa update, where have we got to then, well not very far actually, I have been sailing a few times with the A mast and A sail, its an older design and the boat handles really well with it on, quite neutral and pretty much as expected.

With the A sail being an absolute pain to get and stay up the mast I changed the mast over to the Stealth mast and sail. A very much bigger sail and immediately causing problems. The COE of the sail is now so far to the rear that the boat sits heavy in the water at the rear and now drags the rudders which immediately caused a problem with the Stealth rudders and cassette box I had used. They sit too low down on the hull and the fat part of the cassette box was causing so much drag that the water was shooting around and up like a jet boat at speed. Not good. Anyway culmunated at speed with the Spinny up, pulling out of its threads 2 of the lower mounting screws and catastrophic failure of the smashing off of one rudder.

mmmm back to the drawing board, spent the last 3 weeks in the evenings making up faired in rudder cassettes and mounts so hopefully that will solve that problem.

Now this is where I'm hoping a few of you more knowledgiable types will offer their advise. I need to change back to the A mast and make a new sail. As a starting point in a new design what mast prebend should I start with and what camber and where abouts in the sail should I have that max camber. Get those starting points and perhaps I can create something out of the SailCut software.

Out of interest, which Stealth main were you using Wayne? Was it one of the newer sq. tops or the old style big roach Landy?

Sorry to hear you had a problem, are you sure though that it was the COE causing the problem and not just extra power?

it was the later GP sq top. Yes and no to your question. The extra power once you get up to speed is really cool, The dagger boards and T foils do seem to level the boat up nicely. Its just when you tack and at low speed the vvvvvvery low volume sterns do dig in abit. Much more noticiable with the GP sail which is nearly 400mm deeper than the A sail.

If you put the A mast up it will not be a F16 then right? Unless you cut the mast, but that would be a shame!

Hi Wayne
I guess you have to do some major re cutting. An 'A' mainsail foot is approx 1.8m long and the Stealth's is 2.3m ish. So as you probably already found out the boom is sticking out beyond the transomes! Maybe you should turn the main upside down and have the mother of all fat heads ;-0
Seriously, I hope you do find a fix and if you need some measurements of the luff curve I recorded my Landy's prior to a re cut. From memory the max curve was 105mm but I have the measurements taken at each batten pocket end.
I was going to mention that a sinking stern could be attributed to your midships but that would probably be to polite for this forum at the moment.

Would using a F16 rig of any of the other F16's be an good alternative ? These sails are more rectangular shaped like th A-cat sail, with a foot that is 2050 to 2010 mm long. A good 200 to 250 mm shorter then the stealth sails for example.


Wouter

Rolf, Bitsa was mothballed this season, there had been a lot of discussion going on about the jib and such like that I had become a little concerned that I had been going in a wrong direction with the eventual final spec for her, Main, blade jib and Spinny, that when an A Class platform came up ( I already had the rig and owning and sailing an A had always been one of those things to tick off in ones life ) I opted to run the A for a season ( known platform and rig )to learn about the mainsail and how to get the best out of them.

Intention is to now run the A rig back on Bitsa with a blade jib over the winter and next season just to see just what differnce a jib can make, it will give me a 14sqm main and 2.5sqm jib plus standard spinny.

Foils are still the standard late Stealths but at some stage I will need to rethink this as I've learned from the A just how small both the foils need to be. Perhaps at some stage in the near future some curvy things might appear but lets do one stage at a time.

Thanks Wayne, that is another good plan. Will be very interesting to hear about your experiment next season!

How did you like the A? What was different from the F16 and what was similar?

I am looking at foils, getting quotes etc. in these days. I would be very interested in your opinion on foils (daggers and rudders) for F16s!

Rolf, it really is what you are as a personality, do you like Ferrari sports style cars or American muscle hotrods, both achieve a desired goal, but just get there in different manners.

I do like the ease of use of the A, really easy to rig, 20 minutes max, and launch, everything about them is refined and subtle and yet fast across the water ( I've seen regular 19 knots of speed ). Upwind you can take on other boats and know you are going to be an equal if not ahead, tacking is dinghy like, mainsheet is light, uphauling from a capsize is a doddle, everything is about refinement and ease of use of the A.

But the F16 solo is really not much different in reality, a little slower, less refined upwind perhaps but still a damn good boat( I think aero dynamics of the snuffer and less developed rigs are the cause )and with a bit of tweaking of our class rules, would be pretty similar.

But where is the adrenaline factor " I'm goner scare you today " which the F16's do on a regular basis. Downwind the A is just a sled ride, safe steady and fast. Pop that spinny, heat it up a little and the F16's is a big grin factor. That one aspect has been the one thing that I missed from my F16. I am willing to forget the longer setup, forget the slightly heavier weight, forget the additional sail maintenance costs, just can't forget that one thing.

I think that the A is over penalised on handicap to the point of the rating as ludicrous ( is it faster around a race course on average than a F18, not a hope, so why does it rate higher than the F18 ), its costings are not nearly as high to run annually as I thought, its not as fragile as some make out and is a stunning little boat, but I enjoy for the moment Endurance motorcycles, mtbs, rally cars, the tougher less refined sports and not road cycling / track car racing, the well refined sports.

So for the moment its back to F16 style boats next year but my guess is at some stage health and mobility will dictate that an A may well be back on the cards at some time in the future.

As to boards and foils, go straight to the curved foils and be done with, it will complicate things to such a point as you will think why have I fitted them but with your Blade you are going to need all the help up front as you can get. Also there are a number of A reject boards about at the moment that with a bit of strengthening could suit the higher downwind speeds that our spinnies produce, it will take you out of class ( for the moment ) but they will offer something different. Alternatively what about some A straight boards, there are now quite a few sitting about, redundant. Rudders again A class of about 5 years ago, perfect.

Really?
I have basically a A-cat rig on my boat (but with spi). Going downwind in strong wind without spi is really adrenalin, with spi is safe in my opinion.

Cheers,

Klaus

Agree strong wind is good fun, but we can't alway guarentee strong conditions, the spinny is good fun in medium or light winds as well.

Hi Wayne,

great writeup, thanks!
I have never tried an A, but they are impressive. Even more so with a spin I would think. Add in the curved foils they are developing and it looks great!

Could I ask how old you are Wayne, as you wrote: "but my guess is at some stage health and mobility will dictate that an A may well be back on the cards ".

How did your experimental snuffer work out btw? That is really something to work on! Drag reduction.

About foils for our boats. I think we will want to measure them in as F16s. Curved foils are out of scope for now.
Installing A-cat foils is a real option.
Do you have any links to where I can find old A-cat foils?

As a gross estimation, foils needs to be about 2% of the sailarea. Would be interesting to compare current and 5 year old A-class foils to current F16 foils!

Klaus, I have shamelessly taken a look at your modified NACA0013 profile and unless we find foils we would buy, might use that one. Do you have something similar for daggerboards? And what about planform.. Would you be willing to spend a few minutes thinking about that?

Yup owning and sailing an A is one of lifes sailing experiances, gotta be done. Unfortunately with the rate of development of the modern spinnakered boats with foils and the punitive handicap the A's incur, they sadly will become purely a class racing boat even more so than today.

I'm a "young at heart" 54 but do acknowledge that time is fast catching up with the body and I'm just not physically able to do some of the more mundane things easily, that I could do when I was younger ( tying ones shoe laces as an example ). At the sailing club last night a few of us oldies joked we should buy a flying fifteen and join the real oldies.

The snuffer below the tramp is worthwhile looking at, to date I have never had a retrieve failure unlike the normal snuffer ring which seems to have the occassional hiccup. I think though to productionise it you would need to consider how to get it higher off the water. My greatplan had always been a Y beam with integrale snuffer and forestay, we have to make up weight to 104kgs, why not put it to better use in a stiffer boat + the front beam becomes part of the structure.

Try Hans Klok he would know most of the European A sailors, you maybe surprised just how helpful the A sailors are. My understanding one of the top A sailors is going to race an F16 next year so should be interesting.

I will take photos of the difference in size of the boards but I would guess that the A's are only around 1% of sail area, but very high aspect ratios to get the efficencies. The A seems to lack a bit of low speed drive sometimes ( sideways drift )but get up around 5 knots hull speed and its game on.

We are going out on a real tangent here Wayne, but I got to say this: Physically it should not be a problem keeping strength and flexibility until well into the 70s or even 80s.
I only have the theory myself as I am 40 this fall.. However I have been weighting more than 110kilos at 178cm. What I noticed was how weak I felt. Endurance was shot. Mobility/flexibility was poor and life was downright heavy. Getting my eating habits under control was the key for me. I feel almost like I did when I was 20 except for the long-term injuries I have collected.
Keeping active and eating properly is in my opinion the key to ageing with full use of the body. Of course the definition of "eating properly" is the crux with opinions, PR companies and scientists pointing in all directions while screaming that they are the only true prophet.

54 years is just the first half

You lost me on the Y beam structure I am afraid. How would that look and at the same time reduce drag.

1% for each dagger x 2 = 2%?