| Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: Tony_F18]
#193803 10/17/09 12:30 PM 10/17/09 12:30 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | Pete Melvin:”It is not a coincidence that the hull shape of the new F20 Carbon shows resemblance with the floats of the AC boat I cant see any resemblance to DogZilla, or is it just me? No, but I see a WildCat chine . . . | | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: mbounds]
#193806 10/17/09 12:55 PM 10/17/09 12:55 PM |
Joined: Aug 2001 Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay Luiz
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307 Asuncion, Paraguay | Pete Melvin:”It is not a coincidence that the hull shape of the new F20 Carbon shows resemblance with the floats of the AC boat I cant see any resemblance to DogZilla, or is it just me? No, but I see a WildCat chine . . . One interesting detail is the airfoil shaped snuffer. Apart from that, I see an incomplete and rather conventional design, with curved asymmetrical foils replacing normal boards. No rudder foil or other means to control boat attitude. Also, no indication of an angle of attack control for the foils. I guess M&M still don't believe in (or don't understand) the S foil, which makes more sense for a cat than the C foils seen on this boat.
Luiz
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: Luiz]
#193807 10/17/09 01:21 PM 10/17/09 01:21 PM |
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 133 The Netherlands Kennethsf
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Posts: 133 The Netherlands | Pete Melvin:”It is not a coincidence that the hull shape of the new F20 Carbon shows resemblance with the floats of the AC boat I cant see any resemblance to DogZilla, or is it just me? No, but I see a WildCat chine . . . the wildcat has a sprayrail, that tries t hold back the spray, this shape redirects the water/spray away from the bow One interesting detail is the airfoil shaped snuffer. Apart from that, I see an incomplete and rather conventional design, with curved asymmetrical foils replacing normal boards. No rudder foil or other means to control boat attitude. Also, no indication of an angle of attack control for the foils. wieght distribution of helm and crew are responsible for this I guess M&M still don't believe in (or don't understand) the S foil, which makes more sense for a cat than the C foils seen on this boat. S foils are to complicate to controle on a beach cat
Last edited by Kennethsf; 10/17/09 01:33 PM.
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: Luiz]
#193810 10/17/09 01:58 PM 10/17/09 01:58 PM |
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 976 France pepin
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976 France | One interesting detail is the airfoil shaped snuffer. It looks to me this is flat snuffer hoop design as used on other boats: it leads to a flat bag in mesh. I don't think this is going to be a carbon airfoil shape. Nacra has been using those for years. For example, on a capricorn: | | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: pepin]
#193811 10/17/09 02:17 PM 10/17/09 02:17 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,203 uk TEAMVMG
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Posts: 1,203 uk | Come on guys Nacra is pushing ahead with with what they see as the next step ahead in catamaran developement. Even if you feel that it not a boat that is for you, you have to give then some support for this move at a time when cat sailing has just been dealt a fair old kick in the teeth. Small town - small mind or what! I love the look of this bit of kit and it should appeal to sailors that look foward to something a bit scarry and challenging. the rest you of still have the option of sticking with ........... enough said. For you info, it used to be called iF20 not F20.
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: Tony_F18]
#193822 10/17/09 04:47 PM 10/17/09 04:47 PM |
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 757 japan erice
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Posts: 757 japan | the zilla floats recently got replaced i think you'll find that the plumb bow 1st gen zilla floats are very simialar
eric e 1982 nacra 5.2 - 2158 2009 weta tri - 294
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: TEAMVMG]
#193825 10/17/09 05:52 PM 10/17/09 05:52 PM |
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 1,403 Ventucky Red
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,403 | Come on guys Nacra is pushing ahead with with what they see as the next step ahead in catamaran developement. Even if you feel that it not a boat that is for you, you have to give then some support for this move at a time when cat sailing has just been dealt a fair old kick in the teeth. Small town - small mind or what! I love the look of this bit of kit and it should appeal to sailors that look foward to something a bit scarry and challenging. the rest you of still have the option of sticking with ........... enough said. For you info, it used to be called iF20 not F20. Santa, for Christmas I want my two front teeth and a new NACRA F-20 Carbon. If this does not fit in you sleigh, I'll come pick it up. Are these being made in the US or Europe?
Last edited by johnes; 10/17/09 05:52 PM.
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#193830 10/17/09 08:35 PM 10/17/09 08:35 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 215 Ohio TeamTeets
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Posts: 215 Ohio | Seriously Nacra Europe guys... "Sports and Fun Catamarans" does not make sense in English. Stop wasting the money on the decals that everyone that speaks English removes.
Mike, Ohio Former H16, H18, N20, N17, M4.3
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: TeamTeets]
#193831 10/17/09 09:45 PM 10/17/09 09:45 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 733 Home is where the harness is..... Will_R
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Posts: 733 Home is where the harness is..... | Ok, but... Not all that impressed.
"Carbon" and it still weighs in at 375!?!?! Only 21m^2 on a 33' Al mast.
Where's the "wow" factor? Beam and daggers, that's it.
Really, not trying to be a downer, but... for what the N20 costs these days, what's this one going to run? 40ish? If you want to be first to finish on a 20' boat, looks like the M20, T or CFR will still be king, but I do suspect that this will be hot on their heels. Don't get me wrong, it's cool, but...
(edited b/c I didn't see the carbon hulls and I upped the price by 10k b/c of that)
Last edited by Will_R; 10/17/09 09:52 PM.
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: Will_R]
#193838 10/18/09 07:22 AM 10/18/09 07:22 AM |
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine | it says "less than" 375 pounds which leads me to believe the first one that pops out of the mold will be weighted and thats what the weight will be. Will, as for the mast/SA ratio, I can only imagine that its a high aspect rig. mast height/mainsail area ratio for F20: 0.48571428571428571428571428571429 For F18: 0.53823529411764705882352941176471 I don't know if the F20 number includes the surface area of the wingmast itself, I know it does for the F18. So what yo u might infer from this spec is that the new F20 is not the light-air monster the N20 is, but it could probably handle the more predominant reaching conditions found in distance races better than our beloved N20's can. As for S-foils, I'd like to see some of the A cat guys fiddle around with them first before someone put them on a production beach cat. Cost I've heard two ways, $30k with no sails, and then not even $30k WITH sails. So I guess we're just going to have to wait on an official number from a Nacra dealer. I'll call mine later this afternoon | | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#193846 10/18/09 10:12 AM 10/18/09 10:12 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | Jack said awhile back the target price was less than a M-20.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#193851 10/18/09 11:16 AM 10/18/09 11:16 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 733 Home is where the harness is..... Will_R
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Posts: 733 Home is where the harness is..... | Jack said awhile back the target price was less than a M-20. 40k is still 10k less than an M20 and the M20 doesn't have sails at that price. (price based on last time I checked Marstroms website and at that time the dollar was stronger than it is now) | | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: Will_R]
#193855 10/18/09 12:53 PM 10/18/09 12:53 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 1,203 uk TEAMVMG
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Posts: 1,203 uk | Price is 19,747 euro. + tax
the prototype with inter20 hulls was already faster than the M20!
Last edited by TEAMVMG; 10/18/09 01:01 PM.
Paul
teamvmg.weebly.com
| | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: TEAMVMG]
#193871 10/18/09 08:06 PM 10/18/09 08:06 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | So, is the consensus that you CAN build a 20' too light?
Jake Kohl | | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: TEAMVMG]
#193872 10/18/09 08:08 PM 10/18/09 08:08 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,911 South Florida & the Keys arbo06
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,911 South Florida & the Keys | sheez, just too much cash for a 20' cat. Who can afford to sail them? There will never be enough boats in a region to support the class. I don;t get the marketing plan.....
Eric Arbogast ARC 2101 Miami Yacht Club | | | Re: New Nacra 20 footer?
[Re: Jake]
#193880 10/18/09 10:06 PM 10/18/09 10:06 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 733 Home is where the harness is..... Will_R
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Posts: 733 Home is where the harness is..... | So, is the consensus that you CAN build a 20' too light? I don't think so. The CFR is 245lbs at 8.5' wide and 24m^2 on a M20 mast. It needs more weight to make it go, so you can't sail it light, but with 375+ on board it FLIES! Light in the platform and rig means we can (and have to) carry the weight where it matters but it pays off.
Last edited by Will_R; 10/18/09 10:12 PM.
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