Rolf, can you give some examples? I dont know of any classes where a fully optimized racing tri beat a cat on a regular basis.

Formula 40? Whern't the cats dominant in the F40 class?

The G class cats beat the tri's around the world, but the tri's didnt really compare, they were outclasses by the cats.

Orma 60's are all tri's so thats not a good comparison.

The Seacarts and Farriers dont have any real close cat comparisons.

And with beachcats, there arent any 20ft racing tri's.

I dont know of any fully optimized racing classes where tri's and cats routinely compete on equal footing.

Bill

Formula 28 class comes to mind. The tris was the preferred option there. But as I wrote, the design envelope sets a lot of the parameters for what makes for the fastest design. Yes, it is kind of hard to make an apple to apple comparison.

"America's Cup Deathmatch"

I like the sound of that. Thanks Rolf! You're in charge of marketing now...

Formula 40 was killed off because the fleet was mostly cats and a couple of tris like Biscuits Cantreau and Adrenalin came along and outclassed them all

Orma 60 was actually an open development class - cats were class legal and at least one was built.

The tri is a unique solution here because the DoG limits the boat based on Load Waterline Length. With the tri, you can mostly float everything on the center hull which nails the load waterline limit. Meanwhile, the amas barely touch the water at their deepest rocker...hence why we see the huge bow and stern overhangs on the amas on DogZilla. Since the center hull should ideally be flying, it's water shape is less important than it's measurement shape. It also allows for the weight of the boat to change significantly without affecting the measured LWL...for instance...changing different rigs and adding crazy things like rigid wings.

The catamaran has a tougher time pulling this off and the loading/weight has to be precise to get the measured LWL right - presuming they're trying to get the same kind of overhangs with the benefit of an extended hull length under sail. Getting LWL and weight right also dictates the hull shape more-so than the tri. The tri's ama rocker / shape can be optimized for sailing without much regard for static measurement since the center hull carries the burden for that.

Thanks Jake, I didnt know that. So, the tri would have a measurement advantage under the DOG rules.

I guess thats why Alinghi has that weird bow too, to keep within the static waterline measurement rules.

While doing some googling I came across an article from 2000 that talks about Alinghi's LeBlack.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/at...maran-99143_article_seahorse_aug2000.pdf
Amazing how similar the new boat looks compared to LeBlack.

There was a whole discussion going at BoatDesign as well, but not very conclusive whether tri's are faster.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/multihulls/catamaran-vs-trimaran-8101.html

I've been fascinated at the thought process behind the designs but I have yet to really understand why Alinghi's bow is so proud of the water. I have a theory that they had intended to have a stern overhang while at rest similar to DogZilla and perhaps even with the top of the rudder airborn. Later, they saw an opportunity to mess with the measurement rule to subversively include the rearmost plane where the rudders enter the water into the LWL measurement and give BMWO a humongous headache. All they had to do was add ballast to the rear of their boat sinking the sterns and lifting the bows. Their water line measurement just moves rearward but remains mostly the same overall. In the case of DogZilla, the amas extend well behind the center hull and the rudders are tens of feet from the stern of the center hull. At rest, the rudder/hull join area is well clear of the water. Inclusion of the rudder plane in the LWL measurement is a big problem for DogZilla.

This starts to have perhaps a little credibility when you also consider that Alinhi's cat has been designed for dumpable ballast from day one (which is still questionable from a legal/rule standpoint)...so they can just adjust their fore/aft trim with ballast as needed.

Then again, maybe they were just terrified of pitchpole and decided to add a little margin of safety with the bow line on the Alinghi cat.

OH! And be ready for a big technological unveiling next week from BMWO in San Diego. There's near certainty that a monster rigid wing will emerge from the shed.

More "new news" that's a little old...

In the words of Achmed the Dead Terrorist (Jeff Dunham)... "HOLY CR@P!!!"

The judge decided to bring in three former AC jury members, who the competitors can choose, to help decide the remaining sticky items.

In the words of my fellow drunk Irishmen everywhere... "BRILLIANT!!!"

Mike

First she said that the rudders on BOR 90 were legal as the best LWL measurement rule that SNG could find that INCLUDED the rudders were for a toy boat class :P

Jake, there is a new video in which it has some very nice trim.
Its on the Alinghi Friends section of their website, its an interview with Dirk Kramer Alinghi's chief engineer.
That is one seriously fast cat, some very nice sailing footage.

SNG appealing the no-RAK decision.

Assholes!!

I would think that they sort of have to, if for no other reason than to save face with the politicians in RAK.

Besides, at this point, nothing any of the competitors do that becomes more court business really surprises me. Appeals, now matter how futile, are always on the table.

Mike

This is the second time now that SNG said "we wont appeal" and then a week later... appeals.

You cant deny it is kind of entertaining.
I am sure it will be worth the wait to see these two boats race,
this is in fact the only AC ever that I'm looking forward to.
Who knows how long it takes before they race in multis again,
as they will probably go back to 4 knot shitboxes in future.

Can you believe that people actually WANT to go back to those boats after the magnificence we're seeing right now with regards to boat design?

Of course, unless you want the absolutely richest of the rich to be able to play... then they'll probably have to resort to the less expensive lead-haulers.

The PR nightmare for cats with the AC is this: To the general public, and typical AC fans, cats only come into play when the whole event is in trouble (DoG matches). Cats then get a guilty-by-association view and whenever the general sailing media refers to the ACs with cats, they are always seen as inferior events and a black eye on the history of the AC. I've already seen a bunch of articles in which the author and/or quoted "experts" are saying that they just want to get past this chapter and get the AC back to the event it should be (monohulls)...

Mike

Agreed. To the general sailing public, this is a "freak show" and these are not "real" sailboats.

Oh, I don't know if I agree with that. It's hard to look at these two boats and deny them as incredibly refined sailing machines. All the precise engineering and relentless chase for all the speed imaginable and, if nothing else, the incredible scale of these boats is hard to not appreciate...I don't care who you are.