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Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195173
11/02/09 05:50 PM
11/02/09 05:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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It's true, Jake. All I hear is denigrating comments. Not "wow, look at that thing," but "what a sad, sad joke," instead. Blue Blazer types are outraged. It sucks to be enlightened during dark times.


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195175
11/02/09 05:56 PM
11/02/09 05:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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word on the street is that the wing comes out tomorrow. Stay tuned!



Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195176
11/02/09 05:59 PM
11/02/09 05:59 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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South Carolina
and from last Thursday...a little training session of San Diego. Notice how the RIB nearly disappears under the swell at the end of the clip.



Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195180
11/02/09 06:20 PM
11/02/09 06:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
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Jesus, that's cool.

Why boards-up, I wonder?


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: New A Cup News [Re: John Williams] #195182
11/02/09 06:27 PM
11/02/09 06:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 2,584
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Tony_F18 Offline
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Originally Posted by John Williams
Jesus, that's cool.

Why boards-up, I wonder?

Huh? Boards are down.
That video is cool but would it have killed them to be a little closer? At first I thought it was a scene from waterworld!

I also read an interview from Dennis Conner about the wing from '88, he said that a softsail performed better in light winds, for some reason I thought it was the other way around.

Last edited by Tony_F18; 11/02/09 06:29 PM.
Re: New A Cup News [Re: John Williams] #195187
11/02/09 07:05 PM
11/02/09 07:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by John Williams
Jesus, that's cool.

Why boards-up, I wonder?


One of the semi-recent changes were these elevator posts that are hinged at the hull and mounted right next to the board. They are used to support lines that hydraulically raise and lower the j-boards (and probably the straight boards - they're now setup to run both). I think Alinghi had those first. That's what you see on the leeward hull - it's not the board. The leeward board is down. On the windward hull, the elevator post is mostly parallel to the mostly raised board so it's hard to see.

Seems that the j-boards work better in light air and the straight boards in heavier...that seems to be how they're using them.


Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195192
11/03/09 12:42 AM
11/03/09 12:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan
PTP Offline
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Michigan
that is just amazing. how much wind?

Re: New A Cup News [Re: PTP] #195197
11/03/09 06:44 AM
11/03/09 06:44 AM
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Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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Originally Posted by PTP
that is just amazing. how much wind?


I'm not sure what you're asking me.


Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195198
11/03/09 06:46 AM
11/03/09 06:46 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906
Clermont, FL, USA
David Ingram Offline
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Clermont, FL, USA
What's the wind speed in the video? 8?


David Ingram
F18 USA 242
http://www.solarwind.solar

"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
"Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall
"You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
Re: New A Cup News [Re: David Ingram] #195199
11/03/09 07:18 AM
11/03/09 07:18 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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looks about right to me.

Don't think we'll see a wing today after all - maybe not this week. Will know more tomorrow.


Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195204
11/03/09 08:09 AM
11/03/09 08:09 AM

A
andrewscott
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andrewscott
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A



thanks Jake, you are doing a great job of keeping us posted.
After seeing that video... i think i need a cigarette (quit years ago)...

Re: New A Cup News [Re: ] #195207
11/03/09 08:44 AM
11/03/09 08:44 AM
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Posts: 2,584
+31NL
Tony_F18 Offline
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Re: New A Cup News [Re: Tony_F18] #195214
11/03/09 09:27 AM
11/03/09 09:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
Originally Posted by Tony_F18


That is a nice video - the fore/aft trim on the boat is DEFINITELY more traditional now. Interesting!


Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195215
11/03/09 09:42 AM
11/03/09 09:42 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine
T
ThunderMuffin Offline
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Portland, Maine
I have to say.... that after watching that video - those guys don't deserve to work for such an **** like EB.

Seem like genuinely cool dudes.

Re: New A Cup News [Re: ] #195216
11/03/09 09:42 AM
11/03/09 09:42 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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South Carolina
An update on the legal process:

Last week as most of you know, the NY court deemed RAK (in the middle east) a non-legal venue for the event because A) it's in the Northern Hemisphere and not DoG legal and B) because the United Arab Emirates have some discriminatory policies in place regarding nationality and religion. Since the trust is overseen by the state of New York, any venue would need to uphold the anti-discrimination laws of said state.

Cahn's ruling stipulated Valencia, Spain and required SNG to provide a 6 month notice to the venue announcement. This creates a little bit of an impass because the 6 month window is gone (less than 100 days remain) and there's some dispute about Valencia being Deed Legal (although Cahn's ruling specifically named it...it will probably be in Valencia). GGYC/BMWO has already said they agree to waive the 6mo notice requirement for Valencia since both teams already have bases there - they clearly wanted to race in Valencia from the beginning. SNG/Alinghi claims Valencia is not "safe" to race in February because the weather too unpredictable and it might take 30 days to get three races in.

This will also lead to Alinghi putting wind limits in the SI's and another legal fuss over that (hopefully that is being headed off at the pass this week). The court established a date for racing to start and the Deed of Gift stipulates that the date of the first race is determined by the challenger (GGYC/BMWO). Conceivably, if racing is to be canceled that day by some provision in the Sailing Instructions, it should have been done so by the defender with the mutual consent of the challenger. SNG/Alinghi have shown no willingness to discuss any rule, measurement, or race details with the challenger so far.

SNG/Alinghi appealed Kornreich's ruling on RAK yesterday as well...the appeal probably doesn't stand much chance (if nothing else but for the anti-discrimination laws)...but it's possible that this tactic could delay the match which leads to a whole new can of worms. Hopefully the courts will either say "go race first" as was done in 1988 or quickly hear the appeal (which is somewhat unlikely).

Also ruled late on Friday was that it was illegal of SNG/Alinghi to include rudders in the LWL (Load Water Line) measurement...which means that the GGYC/BMWO trimaran should legally measure in now.

A new legal tactic has been employed by Kornreich (the NY judge hearing the issues now) that should quickly get to the bottom of any more issues. Each side nominated one "independent" judge that has participated in past America's Cup events. Those two judges selected a third person also with America's Cup sailing judicial experience. These three people form a panel that will advise the court on the technical issues being presented (sailing rules, measurement rules, weather, etc.). A hearing was scheduled for this Wednesday but the third judge, from New Zealand or Australia (I forget which), couldn't physically get to New York in time. A hearing has been scheduled for this Friday to listen to the Alinghi complaint that Valencia Spain isn't "safe" to sail in February due to unpredictable weather and we also expect the ability of SNG/Alinghi to change the rules at will to come up again (the court backed down from their stance that SNG/Alinghi could change the rules at any time last week).

Take my comments with a grain of salt because I'm a GGYC/BMWO fan...but the The SNG/Alinghi attorney have used some confuse and redirect tactics and told some outright untruths in court. I think Kornreich, who appeared early to side with SNG/Alinghi, figured this out last week and became suddenly suspicious of a lot of things. This panel should cut through any of the "jedi mind trick" tactics employed by either side's attorneys.


Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195217
11/03/09 09:46 AM
11/03/09 09:46 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Luiz Offline
veteran
Luiz  Offline
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Posts: 1,307
Asuncion, Paraguay
Originally Posted by Jake
Originally Posted by John Williams

Why boards-up, I wonder?


One of the semi-recent changes were these elevator posts that are hinged at the hull and mounted right next to the board.



Are you sure? I tend to think that they are using only the curved part of the leeward J board, which is consistent with downwind sailing. The boom seems to be just slightly opened, the way they normally sail downwind.


Luiz
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Luiz] #195219
11/03/09 09:52 AM
11/03/09 09:52 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
I'm not positive...but it sure looks to be just the elevator pole on the leeward hull. (right click and choose "view image" to see in greater detail).

[Linked Image]


Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195258
11/03/09 02:49 PM
11/03/09 02:49 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
OH crap! DogZilla just dropped her rig - presumably while out training today. Nobody was hurt and they're currently trying to get the rig salvaged and the boat back to dock. No word on what failed.


Jake Kohl
Re: New A Cup News [Re: Jake] #195260
11/03/09 02:58 PM
11/03/09 02:58 PM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



OH SNAP!

Re: New A Cup News [Re: ] #195263
11/03/09 03:10 PM
11/03/09 03:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina
Jake Offline
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Jake  Offline
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South Carolina
word is either the mast itself or a shroud failed. Based on that, I'm guessing that the mast they had on it is no longer in one piece - I believe it was M3..their tallest. They have (had) three masts of varying height they could change out in an afternoon.


Jake Kohl
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