ksurfer2 You're kidding right? Okay, sorry. The F18 is a good boat for novice sailors with a limited budget and should really retain the older sailors and of course attract the kids like flys to honey. Happy now?

DanK: I am not sure what you said to be honest.

Karl, Dan: You guys need to buy F16s! BTW, your ladies rock!!

Karl,
It's all Hobiecentric spew ,look at the source. Discussing anything not in their agenda is like arguing politics online. It's a WASTE of your time.Save your typing fingers and have fun sailing your superfast pro boat. Of course they may be right, if you have an extremely low adrenalin level.
It seems to me it's like apples and oranges.

Now who's talking ****. Jack even said the Wave was suprisingly fun to sail and he sails a bigger boat usually. Adreneline levels low? Good one.

edit: Am I to assume Karl is Ksurfer? So you had a N20 and now sail an F18 and you're trying to tell me you're not into it for some $$ nor have what could be termed 'expert' skills?

you forgot insanely expensive.

You were given special dispensation as a former N20 sailor. ALL HAIL N20

Right from “I have no agenda,” to anti-HCA inflammatory hyperbole, very impressive.




To all: From all the years I’ve been involved, this is where the real issue lies. Generally speaking, HCA leadership truly believes that SMOD is right for the class. Part of this belief lies in the concept that opening the sail rules, etc. ADDS costs and lowers fairness. I know, IWCA (and several others here) feel the direct opposite is true, and this is where the primary issue lies (in my opinion).

Here’s the SMOD argument: It seems very hard to argue that allowing third party sails lowers cost. Maybe for a replacement sail, but definitely not for a new (or like-new) boat. They come with a sail, adding a third party sail to “be more competitive” by definition adds costs, and one could say, turns it into an arms race, not a true test of who’s better on the water.

In any organization, the easiest thing to do is always nothing; keep the status quo. However, the HCA has been recently open to the idea of allowing IWCA rules to see if it will have a positive result on regatta attendance.

One common theme that comes up in discussion is this: Will this help us or hurt us? If we’re going to get ripped apart (verbally, online, etc.) no matter what we do, why should we change our organization to appease the whims of others?

This is what needs to be addressed. Coming out in online rants, refusing to play nicely and attend regattas, etc. does not give the impression that the HCA will be better with you in it.

I really hope no one takes offense to this, because I’m actually trying to help by telling you what the results of your words and actions can be causing.

Mike

Hey Chris, what I was trying to say is that you can get a F18 very reasonable, they are no tougher to set up then a Hobie 20 and that a beginner can easily sail the boat.

Hey Pete, it was great to meet you. We really liked the F16, but we love the F18. And ditto on the gal's!

I really hope no one takes offense to this, because I’m actually trying to help by telling you what the results of your words and actions can be causing.

Hey, Mike,
PASSIVE / AGGRESSIVE

<edit> i need to remove my thoughts from this.. i am not involved</edit>

I suck at passive.

What I posted is all true, at least, truly my opinions and views of the matter.

Mike

Your assumption about who I am is correct. As is your statement about the boats I sail. Does that mean that there is "Big money" involved? Absolutely not!!!!

Yes, I can comptetently get the boat around the course, but continually get taken to school by the experts out there, and I have the results to prove it.

Please stop making broad stroked assumptions about other classes and the people that sail in them.

BTW.....your comment about the 4 hour erection warning is just rediculous and insulting.

Hey Mike

Reality check time.

Year by Year... the SMOD concept becomes less relevant to cat racing in North America.

1) The idea that costs are contained by SMOD is disputed by a majority of the experienced racers in 2009. Back in the day.... is history. (see mike fahles's post)

2) The idea that performance wins in SMOD is disputed by a majority of experienced racers who want sails that match their size to optimize their performance in a class and not the other way around.... Back in the day... "one cut fits all" .... is history. Notice, the hot classes are all formula!

3) The idea that IF we ONLY sanction HOBIE Class One Design racing THEN it will be good for the class and sailors is disputed by .... wait for it... HOBIE RACERS, who at this year's NA's .... quoting you..
"Just because there are a (potentially large) number of people that are vocally in favor, does not meant they are the majority," OR Chris about the guys who forced this response... "as soon as I smelled a riot, I stopped it."

(Perhaps, the needs of 10 or so Hobie 16 racers who may or may not be allowed to compete at Hobie 16 worlds is screwing up the needs of the riotous mob at the NAHCA meeting who have alternate views as to what's good for hobie racing in 2010.)

The IWCA class was not and is not telling NAHCA what to do.
NAHCA asked them to come play...

The F18 class is not telling NAHCA what to do... the request came from the Syracuse region... who lost a regatta this upcoming season and look at the success of the Canadian F18 season and say... Hey... that would be good for us!

I just asked you for a report on the motion.... I can't be any more neutral then that!

You are DREAMING if you think that catamaran world will suck up to the NAHCA and apologize or be grateful for any actions you take.

Should you change your policy and give starts to IWCA Waves and F18's... We will be thrilled and applaud your foresight. The cat racing community will recognize that your actions are serving your sailors and acknowledge your actions as vitally important to keeping the sport alive. We promise to not look backwards and only look forwards and jointly promote Waves and F18's to the sailors looking for that experience.... (I promise Tawd will be gracious and behave as well (grin))

And if your SMOD philosophy is unable to bend a little... Oh well... The world will continue as it's been going... The IWCA class and the F18 Class have their own regattas and NAHCA waves, Tigers and Wildcats are more then welcome to come out and play at these events. The OA's would LOVE to increase their attendance.

Mark

(oh... and to stop the thread... you and chris might stop pissing on other peoples toy boats... they tend to love them and scratch back.)

Different day, so you have a different spin, Mark?

There was nothing neutral about your original posts. You clearly stated (not insinuated) that HCA was trying to delay to make the F18 issue go away. You had similar comments regarding the Waves. Simply untrue.

I'll say it again, just because YOU (and some others) don't like SMOD, doesn't mean lots of HCA people feel the same. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

And, why is it so hard to comrehend that HCA LIKES being part of IHCA?

Don't misunderstand the riotous mob comment. There are strong, equally valid thoughts and feelings on BOTH sides. This may not be a done deal.

No one is asking the "catamaran world [to] suck up to the NAHCA and apologize or be grateful for any actions." I said that you, Mark, owe Chris an apology for talking out of your uninformed little part of the world and accusing him of shutting down the F18 debate for dubious reasons. You, Mark, (not the "catamaran world") still do.

BTW, WTF are you talking about? I never insulted anyone else's boat.

Mike

I dont know when I pissed on anyone's boats. This Karl guy is insulted because I inferred that the F18 is so much fun it will cause the sailors to get a 4 hour erection. Sorry if that offended you. Get a sense of humor or go see a urologist (Call our buddy Herb)
I don't want to be misinterpreted: I was clearing trying to seperate the Wave and F18 issues facing the HCA and of course was attacked for it. I have yet to say one negative thing about anyone's boat, anyone's organization or anyone. I have taken a lot of ****, so has Mike, Matt and anyone else from HCA and I am still thinking this is kinda fun.
So, in summary: We have rules (that none of the current whipping boys have had anything to do with writing BTW) that we are asked to abide by, and will continue to do the will of our Board. You see it as shortsighted and detremental to sailing catamarans, but it is what it is. jWe have made some tweaks (the YC OD start we came up with) and they are working out great. We hope to make more tweaks too, but again, at the mercy of the Board (guys and girls from all over the region) to dictate what we (HCA) can and can't do. You guys beating Mike and Matt and me into the ground are just shooting the messengers.
Live long and prosper.

I enjoy my four hour erections and so do all the ladies who took part of the activities.

F18 is a bad butt boat
Waves are cool to, but kinda to slow for my taste, plus no fleet in my location.

The important thing is the fleets, if there is a fleet of waves have at it, fleet of F18s have at it.

Whatever floats your sails, push it hard.

I just might have that put on my headstone!

I just went back are re read a couple posts and for Karl to get pissed about the 'broad stroke' statements I made about the cost of an F18 and the skill it takes to operate one. I am mystified. I don't care what you say, the cheapest used F18 still costs more than a brand new Wave and most Hobie 16s (not that this statement makes any difference, but just a source of comparison) and so therefore my 'broad statement' about big money (should have said 'relative' big money)pretty much holds true. And as far as inferring that all F18 sailors fall into the 'expert skill' sailing category: I apologize from the bottom of my heart for making that wild and outlandish statement. I am sure that anyone can jump on a Formula 18, and make it go without much experience. The Spin system just looks really simple to operate and doing the WildThing just comes naturally. Whatever.

As for the waves I have no opion as it doesn't affect me in any way. Show up at one of my regattas with an aftermarket sail and we would let you run, but knowing if your competetors protest you will take the hit.

For the F-18 / Wildcat / Tiger argument we had long discussions on this issue. We as Division 3 had 5 Tigers at Havamega and talked as a group. All 5 voted to allow the Wildcat ,and 3 voted to allow other F-18's. Our input was given to our division rep and then on to Chris. Chris told us there was going to be a large meeting / conference call to address more of the class as a whole.
So while it was tabled at the AGM it is not done. Chris wanted a more comprehensive group of the Tiger fleet. This was mainly a West Coast Championship so we wanted to wait till the east coast contingent weighed in. Chris took everything we had to input and listened well to our concerns and wishes. While there may not be a solution that appeases everyone yet I feel one may be coming.

I don't really think there were many of the East Coasters who were planning to go in the first place other than Rick. Its not like 10 or 20 ICWA sailors bailed because the rules changed.

In reality it was a West Coast event. I know there were a few trailers from the Heatland, but how many other classes had much support from outside the West?

The weather was easily predictable. The venue had loads of Hobie sentimental history but not much sailing appeal.

My bet is that if had ICWA rules prevailed, there probably would have been 10 Waves rather than 7.