Get with your Division Chair and put together a proposal then get it to Commodore Wessels and see what he thinks. My personal opinion is that something like this would work great if it was done right.

So you want the class association to buy comptips for everyone? Is that it? How about mast bobs too?
John (Mr Ebay lurker) you know damn well there has been at least 5 Hobie 16 comptip mast for sale in the last month.

I have two. Drop me a PM.

Is there really a shortage of comptip masts out there? Is that why youth aren't racing, the cost of a comptip?

I have a hard time believing that.

I have 2 extra comptip masts sitting in the yard, that I would gladly donate to a youth sailor. I have a complete 1984 redline that I will donate to any youth sailor in my division that wants to race. And for any youth in the country that wants to race a 16 and absolutely can not find a comptip mast, I've got an extra comptip that got a little banged up during shipping that I will donate, you pay shipping. Have your division chair write a letter of necessity to me and it's yours. Youth only. For racing only.

jeremy at surfcitycatamarans.com

I've been wrong before, but I don't think there is a shortage of race legal masts. If it is truly an issue, I'm sure the factory and your local dealer would offer a substantial discount to a youth sailor that wants to purchase an comptip outright.

j

If there are people who are not racing because they don't want to cough up the money for a comptip, I say hell yea let's help them pay for it or find one for them. It's classic drug dealer marketing. Get them hooked first worry about making them pay for it later.

OK, how about this...

My son can't race because I can't afford the time off work to take him to regattas. How about if the class sends me money equivalent to 2 days work every month and I will make sure he races regularly!

I don't need a comptip but why should it matter what the money is spent on as long as the outcome is the same?

Obviously a tongue in cheek arguement. However, maybe Obama would give me stimulus money to heat up the slowing sailing market? All of this seems foolish, no?

Hey, Sailing is a Green Sport, add to that the fact that it promotes enviromental education to our young people, and creates American Jobs, there must be a Multi Billion Dollar Grant in there somewhere, all we have to do is "sell it". I'd much rather see my tax dollars spent on that than the AIG CEO's Bonus!

Cough, cough, good one. Sorry to burst your bubble, but sailing is far from green. Building the boat and maintaining it cost a lot. Resin, carbon fiber, glass fiber, mylar, aluminium, dyneema, polyester, even dacron and your trampoline are all costing quite a lot in fossil fuels.

It is not a direct use like jet skis or motorboats, but it is far from being neutral impact.

It's depressing really.

Add to that the sailors behavior: I'm doing safety at my sailing club regularly and you won't believe how many water bottle, pieces of line and other rubbish we find on the side of our reservoir all thrown away by sailors as there is no other user of the space...

I know the CompTip issue pops up every now and then and I respect all the verbiage expounded in previous threads over the years.

However, from a strict liability side, I can't believe that HCC lawyers still think that they are less exposed to litigation from literally thousands of third, fourth and fifth generation metal mast Hobie owners, than those who might race.

They apparently felt that they had done diligence in their responsibility to owners of the older boats years ago when they cancelled the gratis upgrade program. Since there haven't been a multitude of those boat owners frying themselves, not to mention the same scenario for owners of other brands of sailboats, it really seems that HCC should step up and provide CompTips to wannabe racers who don't have the "golden" part if they want to cling to their ban.

Otherwise, drop the exclusion and add to the rules that only boats delivered without a CompTip may use a metal one. That would prevent someone with a newer boat from fitting an old mast for a perceived advantage. And...God knows that those old boats will be hopelessly uncompetive anyway.

Of course this goes against the Hobie Doctrine which is virtually cast in stone.

It doesn't make sense for HCA-NA to have to pay for this, even if they have all this money to spend.

In fact, I don't think Hobies from outside North America have to have CompTips, do they?

Also, I think if you want the old boats to come out (doubt if HCC would be thrilled about that either) then they might need separate class or a class within the fleet to make it interesting. Not unlike the Wave option of two classes within one fleet, if we were to get to that point.

Still, this is a worthy discussion. Just my point of view though.

Hey Pepin, shhhh! Don't tell anyone about the -nasty- stuff that goes on in the factory! Most Americans (especially those in our Government)are beyond stupid especially in the sciences, they have no idea what goes into making a sailboat, so don't you go telling them!

They think Green means no gasoline, don't go and spoil it for them and the rest of us!

;^)

Well if you’re going to take that attitude then why bother with youth grants. Those little turds should pay their own way. (Obviously tong in cheek as well.)

Anyway maybe it’s a solution to a non-problem but we do need more people working on real solutions to our present challenges.

Are you a Goth?

OK, how about this. At Sail Sand Point in Seattle www.sailsandpoint.org we have six Waves, and six H-16's, with comptips, all available for Youths to sail in local regatta's at no charge.
Caleb Tarleton

[quote=Timbo
Hey Pepin, shhhh! Don't tell anyone about the -nasty- stuff that goes on in the factory! Most Americans (especially those in our Government)are beyond stupid especially in the sciences, they have no idea what goes into making a sailboat, so don't you go telling them!

They think Green means no gasoline, don't go and spoil it for them and the rest of us!

;^) [/quote]

Oh! Yes the Government does know what's going on at the factory!

As a former environmental regulator of RCRA Rules (the federal hazardous waste regulations), the fiberglass industry produces all sorts of hazardous waste. Examples: Codes D001-Ignitable waste; D001-Oxidizing wastes,such as MEKP; F003-Acetone solvent wastes; F005-Methyl Ethyl Ketone solvent wastes; F003 & F005-hazardous stillbottoms from the distillation of hazardous solvents; D007 & D008-paint booth filters and other paint wastes containing TCLP heavy metals; D008-Metallic Lead, not being recycled as scrap metal, If they are doing anodizing or other metal treatment, there is more I could list. Carbon composite pre-cursers are even more to list.-That's what was making the employees sick, at the factory that makes the plastic Stealth aircraft.

So is that why the manufacturing is being sent to China? No EPA rules? Or is it their cheaper labor, or both?

Oh, and in my quote about Americans being stupid on the the sciences, I should have been more specific, I should have said "American Politicians".

All those laws/rules explain why Clark Foam shut down.

A random collection of thoughts on the posts over the weekend:

As for the notion that the main reason for IWCA sails becoming open was to standardize the quality of the sails, that doesn’t jive with the concept of adapting the cuts for crew weight. Those are two VERY different goals.

So, are those Hobie-made Mylar sails worth more money now as collector’s items? Matt B, do you have one buried in your pile of other obscure Hobie objects of days gone by?

For those of you who keep asking, we really don’t want to fragment the boats. Having two separate Wave classes at a regatta is like having Hobie 18 and Hobie 18 Magnums. Just dwindles the class sizes, and fewer people show up after a while.

Jack, no one answered your HavaMega question here, but if you search through the other post, it's been answered. The OA decided to not allow IWCA sails. I don't know whether stock sails would have been available for rent, but my sense is that it wouldn't have changed the end result once that decision was made.

H16 comptips and Youth: Let’s make this even easier. If a Youth team wants to race with a pre-comptip boat, let’s let them do it for a year. If they want to stick with it, let’s find them a newer boat that might actually be competitive, and maybe have a grant program to help them buy the newer boat.

I don't think we'd be doing anyone a favor by getting a comptip on an early 80s boat. They’ll most likely be needing to buy a tramp, sails and probably rudders anyway. By the time you add all of that to the cost of one of those boats, you could have something that’s less than 10 years old, with a comptip and in much better overall shape.

Mike

Those are indeed too different goals, and as a Wave newbee I may be wrong but there was not an attempt to standardize quality so much as the ability to choose a sail that fits your need and to have recourse against the maker if something is wrong with the quality. That way you don't have to buy 2 or 3 sails before you get a good one (hopefully).




My plan would have both classes racing in one race, with all boats eligible for overall rankings and a separate set of awards for the lesser boats. That shouldn't "fragment the boats".



I have a perfectly good Hobie sail that is brand new. My question was retorical. BTW, I do intend to race at MWE as a legal Wave, should the IWCA deal not materialize. Ditto for the Mega in MS next year.

You have both sails, you're an HCA member, but your name isn't in the HavaMega results.

What point were you trying to make with the rhetorical questions about this event?

Mike

<<<Originally Posted By: mmillerThe thing we wouldn't allow is modification of a factory supplied charter boat.>>>

My response:

I believe that is certainly in order. You own the boats...you say what can or can't be done with them. Makes perfect sense. But that aside, are you saying if I had brought my own boat and ICWA sail, I would have been welcome at HavaMega?>>>

Matt stated that the factory supplied boats could not be modified. I asked whether personal boats meeting IWCA standards would have been allowed to race.

My belief is that my North sail would not have been permitted, even though Matt seems to imply that only the rental boats needed to comply with HCA Wave rules.

Just looking for clarity Mike.