I don't disagree but the rudders are not why he was last.

I think that is a reasonable risk we take whenever we get new folks to participate in any sport. Some will go away saying it isn't worth the extra effort and others will take the challenge like Patrick Green did. I would prefer to race (and get my butt kicked) with Patrick Green on a boat that handles nicely, than beat 20 wankers on "stock" boats, none of which are exactly the same.

I don't think it is healthy to dumb the fleet to the lowest denominator. An optimized platform within reach of the new guy, and that is very ridgidly administered makes more sense.

Some of you keep bringing up the fact that HCC never intended the Wave to be a racer. That is an absolute truth. As such, why is there any resistance to the IWCA version , as the official "Race Wave"? I'm not sure why we are even debating this.

No offense intended toward the "wankers", BTW.

Hello all Wave/Hobie sailors and racers,

I have read most of this post and I see both sides. I grew up racing Prindle 16 and such from a very young age. The class was a semi open class. Open to any sail and sail maker as long as it measured in and any tramp maker/design as long as the boat weighed in. It did bring in professional sailors like Rick and the other professional sail makers. That always leads to a higher caliber of racing as each pro trys to win and sell more stuff.

It also has the possibility of turning off new sailors, but that was always addressed with "B" fleet, "C" fleet... Everyone has a chance to go home a "winner".

The bigger issue is that the Prindle class is dead and gone, but the Hobie class and many of the original boats live on. A big part of that is strict one design racing. All boats, new or old are in theory are equal. All of these classes have allowed changes over the years, but the changes are slow evolution, not lock stock and barrel changes.

The problem as I see it starts with the fact that the Wave was never intended to be a "racing" class boat. Changes at the factory either held cost, or made the boat better for the recreational sailor. That you all have made it such is cool. That you have also agreed to a set of rules and some open changes is understandable. What you may not see is that without your direct support (read this as money and purchases) there is no reason for the producing factory to support your efforts. It has to go both ways. Just as supporting your local dealer is key to keeping the local source open, supporting your manufacturing facility is also key.



I used to race Aqua Cats. They had really terrible dagger boards and rudders. We all used them. Some tried making better boards and blades. That was ruled and unfair advantage so we all sailed the ineffective blades. There were better options, but we all thought the level playing field was more important than pointing or speed.

I hope next time Hobie steps up to support the class by providing charter boats, that the class steps up to support that effort. It will be good for both sides in both the short and long term.

I did sail at HavaMega and dispite the no wind venue I had a great time. I am sure that you would have had a great time too.

Mike Hammond

While all this may or may not be true, no matter what class you are in you are going to need good equipment to be at the top. If everyone is using a comp tip you might need one also. But the fact of the matter is even if it is a stock sail you will probably need a new one and not the blown out one you received with the boat. I am willing to guess by the number of slightly used sails out there that most of the successful sailors are using crisp sails for there attempt to win big regattas, stock or custom.
The nice thing about the Wave is I can see no other part besides the sail and the rudders that will help this simple boat go faster. Weight seems to be no factor as races are won with 100 pound differences with the drivers.
When all is said and done I have around 2200 dollars into my boat which is as competitive as any out there and I am sure I could sell it for more tomorrow. You could spend more than that on a pair of skis per season. Its all relative. Sports cost money and the Wave class is pretty inexspensive.

Patrick Green

Wow, This thread has gotten surreal.. especially in context of the ISAF meeting report on the fate of catamaran racing. After reading this thread I expect that .. ISAF will want their fee for each individual boat plaque for the ISAF Wave sailor.

It's been my observation that in the last 15 years of regattas on the Chesapeake... Close proximity to Washington DC, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Annapolis and the Tidewater area... Maybe 10 million people? Regatta organizers have fielded about 3 inquires about Wave Racing... I haven't seen one show up yet... much less three to race.

The recreational sailing beaches of old are empty. Even if a Wave sailor trailer in to rig and go sailing... they are unlikely to see another Wave on the water...

So... HOW are you going to get a racing class when you can't even get the basics of one boat chasing another off the beach?

I think you need a very different model of how to grow this class other then invitations to major weekend regattas using a IWCA or NAHCA rule set). IMO... it is irrelevant whether it's a Hobie points or Open regatta... To the guy who bought a Wave for family fun at their beach property... this is just white noise. EVEN if you got his attention... never having sailed with another Wave... He simply won't get interested in the notion of a race.

So, before you divide up the handful of wave racers on what rules to follow.

Is the Wave Class about getting cat racers from other classes who now want a cheap very simple boat?

Or is the Wave Class about ID and attracting Wave owners who are attracted to the social aspects of a fleet of catamaran sailors and bring the boat out to play but have never raced before and get talked into giving it a spin... Just like the good ol days of Hobie, Prindle, etc etc?

Is there another model that the class is going about?

Mark, are you asking HCA or IWCA?

I first started racing in the largest, most active class of cats in the USA.., the Shark Catamaran. My buddy and I picked up the boat at the backyard dealer, who asked if we wanted to race with their Shark Fleet at Mentor Harbor YC, in Mentor, OHIO that weekend. We, of course, did.
We were DEAD LAST.
Had a great time, however, and vowed to get better. I followed around the Wells Family (father, Bill, daughters Mary and Betty), for two years and always kept my eye on how and why they did things. Then at the keg kept asking questions.
In a little over a year, they won the NAs and I took 3rd with my son, Dave (who is a top sailor in the Nacra 6.0 and Wave).
No, I did not quit just because I was last, and probably didn't have the best equipment. I was last because this was all new to me, and I had a helluva lot to learn.

Mark, sorry you don't see us anywhere near you, but Waves are thriving, with new fleets popping up all over the place. And once in the class, it seems sailors really fall in love with the boat and the class.

Who makes it up? Well, a good many of the sailors were once teams on Hobie 16, 18, 20, Prindles of all sorts. Now the guy and gal each have their own boat and race against each other.., and both usually with a lot of success.
Lots of older people: We started out with the Masters at age 55, but most of the fleet was there or better, so we raised it to 60 and are looking to go to 65.
We have made tremendous attempts at getting youth involved, as it is a great training boat. We cannot claim much success along that line, however.

Again, IWCA is the ONLY ACTIVE Wave class. We are not dividing anyone. Anyone from HCA is welcome with open arms. Unfortunately, that feeling is not reciprocal and there is where this thread began.

How about this. Invite the Waves. If they show up, give them a start. That is what we do. www.sailsandpoint.org
Caleb

I agree, but if Lasers can get Radial, 4.7, and full rig, why can't hobie say std one design, and IWCA rigs?
It seems no-one wants to help IWCA that started on their own, so they have to stay on their own?????

My name is Eddie Moran. I am a novice racer and a Wave fan. I have had the opportunity to sail my wife's Wave for six months now. I raced in the Nationals a few weeks ago just 10 miles south of my home in Merritt Island, Fl.

The race was put on by Scott and Dior of Performance Sail and Sport in Melbourne, Fl.

WHAT A FRIGGIN BLAST! I have raced cars, landed on carriers and crashed airplanes and I can say that the Wave racing was right up there. Getting my butt kicked by 72 year old sailors is ok with me. They were more than happy to give advice.

I have a standard Wave. How did I do? Well, on the races that I competed I had a few legs that I was right in there. Had I been smarter and knew what I was doing I would have done much better. I had fun.

The wind was gusting to 25 the first day and the waves were an issue but I hung in there. The beer and BBQ were excellent and the friendships made were a bonus.

So after reading this thread I would say that you guys need to do whatever you think is right to bring out more people like me. We have a chance to be right in the mix with stock boats as proven by Scott who raced a stock boat and did very well.

Jack, I hope Flika and you are doing well!

Eddie Moran

I have ALWAYS said sailing a Wave is exactly like crashing a plane on an aircraft carrier. Now I have been proved right.(of course I am joking to all those that take everyting totally literal)

First, Happy Thanksgiving to one and all.

Second, I can't believe the number of posts on this thread.

Third, I can't wait to race against you guys and gales.

<< Unfortunately, that feeling is not reciprocal>>
There's been lots of miscommunication. How can we fix it? Where do we start?


[size:17pt]How about a new thread....Wave of the Future. [/size]

Mimi Appel

Hey Eddie. Will we see you at the Nats? Flicka is a real trooper.

BTW, anyone who says the Wave is a POS kids boat, Eddie not only flew Phantoms and Hornets onto carriers, he did it as a Marine!

Semper Fi

Eddie and Mimi, Hope to see you both next weekend for the Nationals in the Florida Keys. The usual 10-15 + Tradewinds, flat seas, and kick-butt sailing.
Chris, you ought to get your butt down here as well and see what it is all about. There are charter boats available. just email Barb Short <barb (at) the-helm.com>

Rick

Eddie,
Just so nobody gets confused, the regatta you went to in Melbourne was the Wave North Americans. The Wave Nationals is this coming weekend, Dec. 5, 6, 7, in the Florida Keys, as always. Hope you can make it, because it is the class' major event of the year, and the annual class meeting and election of officers is also held during the Nationals. Here is a link to all the information: http://www.catsailor.com/waves/wave_nationals.html


For any questions, contact me, mary@catsailor.com, or 305-433-0840 (cell).