Maybe some market research would be appropriate. Why doesn't the Hobie Class Association just do a survey through the Hotline and ask how many people might be interested in buying and racing Waves at the HCA regattas? Pointing out the benefits of the boat for kids, women and seniors.

Was that Fleet 20? When?

1995 or so. I don't remember which fleet, sorry.

The comptip issue is one of liability and safety, so that's the way that goes (from our Ins. Co.'s perspective). Nothing more, nothing less.

"Here’s the main point: HCA is not asking IWCA to change their rules for IWCA events, but there may be limits in what we can get changed for HCA events. Would it really kill you to put a Hobie sail up at a HCA event if that were the only rule we couldn’t change?"

I do not own a stock wave sail any more. I know of three others at Put-in-Bay who do not have them either. If we did they would as old as our boats and as in many different shapes as the sails we have now. I could flip the question and say would it kill anybody to sail with different sails. In the right hands stock sails can and are just as competitive as aftermarket sails. Maybe Hobie could hire an aftermarket sailmaker and make a run of 10 to 15 sails to compete with other aftermarket sails. Could be revenue for the company and great advertising when they win. I would sail any sail that would meet my weight, style of sailing and could make me go faster. That shape will be different from everyone else's. That is why I do not understand the one design sail rule. To me it is a disadvantage for everyone except who that sail fits. When everyone finds there optimum sail shape and are sailing there fastest you truly have one design races and closer racing. I have seen this many times.

Those are my thoughts and my opinion only. Just hoping for better racing, regattas and for all involved to prosper.

Patrick, BlackCat Racing Hobie Wave #11

Good point! Especially if the only reason for the aftermarket sail is...


J

How about put a flying H on every sail!

trace one out... some sticky back... a good hand with a scissor!

Presto.... Look Ma.... they be HOBIES out there!

Most of the aftermarket sails already have flying H's on them. You don't need to make them. You can buy the flying H's from a Hobie dealer.

I had my local graphics shop make mine

Hobie dosen't make them in colors of course.

Now don't tell anyone .... but I cut out my "BLUE" flying "H" w/ some sticky back, a tracing and a Exacto razor knife ....


But I have to admit that the sail has a little sailmaker's patch that says "Hobie Cat" on it .... I just was hard-headed and wanted "BLUE" numbers and "H" to match my white w/ blue accented boat.

And it is a very fine sail ... when the Hobie Cat Co , w/ their resourses, concentrate ... they can make a very fine sail ....

Harry

Patrick,

You hit the nail on the head, the difference between IWCA OD and IHCA OD (keep SMOD out of it for now), is the issue of tailoring sails to the sailor. IHCA sees this as having the potential to create an arms race, driving up the costs (this happens in other classes all the time). IWCA sees it differently.

I'm not taking sides here, just pointing out the philosophical difference.

The real question is, how do we resolve this to move forward?

Mike

I have heard that term used before -- "arms race." But the term really flies in the face of the basics of the USA economy.., competition is what lowers prices.

Calvert is one of the leading sailmakers for the Wave, with his top-of-the-line sail (this is a color-load high tech sail) is just under $1K. He also has recently come out with experimental sails made of High-modulus Dacron at about half that price, and a Pentex that is in between those figures. See the item on our store at
https://store.catsailor.com/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=30719&idcategory=0

So, because of the so-called "arms race" prices have been reduced.

Whenever there is competition, there will not only be excellence in the product, but lower prices.

When I was racing Tornadoes in the 70s there were a multitude of sailmakers, each trying to outdo the other to get sales. And bargains were abundant. And the sails were of very high quality.

On the other hand. When Laser or Hobie decides to raise their prices, who is able to compete with them? No one! So, the buyer is the one that suffers.
And suppose the manufacturer not only raised the prices, but reduced the quality of the sail. Where are you going to go then? No where to go! You are stuck. Either buy a poor product at a high price.., or get out of the class.

Competition is what this country is made up of. (I know.., as an English Major I know that you are not allowed to use a preposition to end a sentence with. )
Rick

What brigade were you in?

This is a difference and I do try to understand each side. I look at it like every sport cost money. To be at the top or wanting to get there costs a little more. Examples might be motocross. You could buy a stock bike and go out and race, but to keep up you might need a new pipe or new knobby's. If you ski raced I am sure you probably need new skis and boots every year. And if you raced sailboats i am sure you would need new sails at least every other year whether they be stock or custom. I am as poor as anyone I race against and I do not see this as an arms race. All told I have invested no more than $4000 in boat sails and trailer. I also see no need to invest any more because there is nothing to get to make it go faster. It is all relative and I do try to look at all sides but I am afraid I am biased because of the close racing I have seen with the aftermarket sails.

Would it be a possibility to have a regatta where the sailors rotate boats so they can experience any differences?? I am more than willing to do that to let people see for themselves.

Patrick.

I think the single biggest appeal of the Wave Class is that, as Patrick said, the racing is so close -- and that is between people who weigh 100 pounds to 220 pounds or more. Not many classes can say that. And it is primarily because the sailors are able to get their sails cut flat, medium, or full, depending on their weight. The stock Hobie sail in recent years has been very competitive, and it seems to work well for many people in the middle weight ranges. But we want the class to attract as many people as possible, regardless of their size and weight.

And then, as I have pointed out before, we also want to welcome the sailors who have bought used rental boats with after-market sails and/or after-market trampolines.

In these days of declining numbers, we have to make it as easy as possible for as many people as possible to participate -- and at the least possible cost.

There is no need to compromise anymore than anyone wants to. There is no reason we can't come to IWCA regattas and if you wanna sail stock, you can come to ours. We hope to have them springing up here and there over the next few years. I am working on the rudder issue though....

I'm kind of curious about trampolines, too. Why would anybody care about that? They can't make your boat go faster, can they? I suppose if somebody doesn't mind being wet and uncomfortable all the time and has an open net tramp that has less windage when the boat is flying a hull, and, therefore, the boat is less likely to capsize, thereby giving you an advantage in windy conditions, that might be up for discussion. Haven't seen that yet.

Can't answer that any more than I can answer why entreprenuers that create jobs and are successful, have to pay the highest tax rates available. None of it makes sense to me.

I wondered if the total platform weight (being heavier than some of the other alternatives) made the playing field more level, since an extra 50 lbs of crew weight wouldn't affect the (as a % of) total weight as much. But having some ability to vary sail cut helps I'm sure.

Well Rick, the actual argument that I've heard regarding the "arms race" is that sometimes, equipment or sails can change so fast that if open changes are allowed, equipment becomes obsolete faster than it wears out. This puts a burden on people who wouldn't ordinarily replace their equipment so frequently, because they perceive that they need to upgrade more often just to keep up.

Pre-baby, I would replace my jib every two years, and the whole boat (H16) every four. The main was pretty tired by the fourth season, but the cost of upgrading the whole boat is really only about twice that of a new set of sails, so it makes sense to me. If the H16 class allowed open equipment and sails, sure I might be able to get a cheaper main, but would my old boat be worth as much when I wanted to upgrade? Probably not.

Since we've had Hunter, the boat rarely gets used, but that's another story...

Mary, thanks for the insight regarding the tramps, up to now I thought this was another of those cost saving issues. I know that the tramp issue is difficult, it's not like people are going to be running around with two tramps, so to get IWCA boats at HCA events will require something creative.

Don't forget, we still have a large majority of voting members that strongly feel that loyalty to HCC is in our best interests long-term. Fortunately, HCC doesn't tell us what to do, or threaten to remove support, but lots of HCA members and officers do feel that we don't want to slap them in the face.

I appreciate that others here from other classes may not feel this way, but this is a core sentiment of the HCA and IHCA.

Mike