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Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: ] #198419
12/07/09 10:39 AM
12/07/09 10:39 AM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Mugrace72 Offline
old hand
Mugrace72  Offline
old hand

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 921
Alachua, FL
Originally Posted by xanderwess
Nice Job Jack, I look forward to not only kicking Mimi's butt, but yours as well in June.


smile laugh


Jack Woehrle
Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III
HCA-NA 5022-1
USSailing 654799E
Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay
-- Have You Seen This? --
Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: waterbug_wpb] #198420
12/07/09 10:47 AM
12/07/09 10:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
THe class has no upper or lower windspeed. But, the Wave loves heavy air. When the squall hit, I clocked the wind at 22-27 mph, which is very sailable for a Wave. Some would even say it would be desirable.
But, we sent the fleet home (properly, by the way, Matt with the correct flags -- Chip was on shore, did not see the actual flags, and gave everyone a report so you would know what was going on. You are starting to sound like the Ebert of PRO-land grin)
The reason they were sent home has because of Murphy. Anything that could go wrong, would.., and did.
The start was a General Recall. No one, Including me on the port end of the line, heard the horns. And then immediately the two youth sailors capsized at the starting line. So, I was quite occupied seeing to their safety. Roots got up by himself, but Palmer did not seem to know how to right the boat. So, I spend a considerable amount of time with Palmer. We finally got the boat righted. It was then that Roots pointed out there was General.
When I got back upwind (in heavy, pounding chop, I might add) Sure enough there was a General.
Then I headed over to the reaching mark and headed off the fleet, sending them back to the starting line. Meanwhile, the reaching mark decided to head downwind and tie up near a dock.
While the boats were heading back to the start line, I retrieved the mark, added more weight to the anchor and again pounded upwind into the seas to reset the mark.
On the way back to the start line Sharon Woodruff capsized, righted, capsized, righted, capsized, etc. Skip Kaub and Jack Woehrle came to her rescue. Meanwhile her sail was getting trashed. Skip jumped aboard her boat and took the sail down, Sharon jumped (well struggled to get on Skip's boat -- Jack Woehrle jumped in and helped her get aboard, then sailed over to retreive his own boat).
Sharon's boat needed towed in and about that time, my boat, which John McKnight had borrowed lost the rig.., another towing situation.

Again, this was sailable wind, but so many things went wrong at the same time, and we were starting to run out of time for the day, so I told the PRO to send them in.

Hope that answers the blown out race report.

OK, now back to the Thrown out race.

Warren Green was the PRO and is a bit new to the game. He is extremely well intentioned. He does a great job. I was there as a mark boat and generally in charge of the regatta.

During the 4th race I told Warren that this race would be over by 3:30 and I would shorten the course up for the fifth race to get the sailors off the water shortly after four o'clock to party a bit, shower and show up for the dinner party.
Mistakenly he hoisted the Change of Course Flag and the Shortened Course Flag as the sailors were coming to the finish. I was upwind moving the marks at the time. When I got back I suggested those flags be struck, which he did. His reasoning was to let the sailors know the next race would be a course change and it would be shorter -- way TOOOOO MUUUCH information. The flags did not adversely affect the 4th race, although it could have perhaps. After all they were heading for a finish line off the starboard side of the Signal Boat, and everyone finished just fine.
But, that had planted a seed in the mind of a few sailors.
The race went off just fine and all was going well, until Steve Abbey decided mistakenly to sail directly from the reaching mark and cross the finish line upwind. (the couse designation called for a triangle, windward, and leeward, downwind finish. Nothing else).
Apparently, in a knee jerk reaction to Abbey yelling that he was finishing, Warren blew a whistle.
At that point most of the fleet were half way up to the Windward Mark. About 3 or 4 boats heard the whistle, and either came back, or hesitated. Either way, it affected the sailing.
Skip Kaub was one of those that actually came back, went through the finish line. He DID NOT get a whistle, and went on to complete the course properly.
Abbey and Kaub filed for redress.
Abbey's was denied as he did not sail the proper course.
Kaub's was accepted, but it was moot point
The race was thrown out as there was no way to determine fairly who should be in what position.
Most of the fleet were well past this fiasco and none of the top sailors would have been affected had the race been kept and random positions applied, but that was the determination made and that was what everyone had to live with.

It gravely affected the scores of Dave and Leah White. Dave had a huge lead and Leah was 3rd place. I believe Woehrle was farther back, but don't think he was affected by whistles.

So, we had Abbey starting the confusion, and Warren made the error of blowing a whistle. And I agree with not using a whistle. Without the whistle, the race would have stood and Abbey would have been disqualified.

All in all, it was a great regatta with just about every kind of wind you can imagine (the last day the wind steadily dropped to make the last race a drifter and a shortened course race -- done with the proper flags, Matt!


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: RickWhite] #198423
12/07/09 10:55 AM
12/07/09 10:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
I got this message just now from Barb Bernstein, 2nd place trophier for the Silver Fleet:

Hi Rick,
The Hobie Wave Nationals event was great. I had an exciting time. A lot of fun and challenging for me!
On may way out of the park yesterday, I stopped to pick a full wet suit in the middle of the road just before the attendants booth when I was leaving. It is a Body Glove brand men's large full length black wet suit w/zipper on the back. It has no name. Would you sent out an email to the competitors and see if anyone responds to having lost the item? It probably was left on top of a car to dry and the person forgot it was there. Then they put the peddle to the metal as they left the parking area and it flew off.

Thanks
Barbara Bernstein


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: RickWhite] #198428
12/07/09 11:08 AM
12/07/09 11:08 AM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 353
Key Largo
barbshort Offline
enthusiast
barbshort  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 353
Key Largo
For grins and giggles I rescored the Nationals with the race 5 results included. Didn't affect a single trophy. Positions 10-14 switched around a bit, that's all.

Rescored with 5th included
Overall
Sailed: 12, Discards: 1, To count: 11, Entries: 21, Scoring system: Appendix A
Rank SailNo HelmName R1 R2 R3 R4 R5 R6 R7 R8 R9 R10 R11 R12 Total Nett
1st 100 Jack Woehrle 3.0 3.0 2.0 3.0 1.0 1.0 2.0 1.0 (9.0) 2.0 4.0 4.0 35.0 26.0
2nd 96 Leah White 2.0 1.0 9.0 2.0 4.0 2.0 5.0 (15.0) 1.0 1.0 1.0 3.0 46.0 31.0
3rd 66 Dave White 4.0 2.0 3.0 1.0 (16.0) 7.0 3.0 2.0 7.0 5.0 5.0 1.0 56.0 40.0
4th 6 Stan Woodruff 1.0 (22.0 OCS) 1.0 8.0 2.0 3.0 1.0 4.0 8.0 11.0 9.0 2.0 72.0 50.0
5th 24 Ray Matusak 9.0 5.0 5.0 6.0 3.0 6.0 6.0 9.0 (11.0) 10.0 2.0 5.0 77.0 66.0
6th 19 Taylor Palmer 7.0 RDGa 7.0 RDGa 7.0 RDGa 7.0 RDGa 6.0 5.0 8.0 11.0 4.0 3.0 (12.0) 7.0 RDGa 84.0 72.0
7th 3 Steve Abbey 11.0 4.0 11.0 4.0 19.0 8.0 4.0 3.0 6.0 7.0 11.0 (22.0 DNF) 110.0 88.0
8th 10 Jim Glanden 5.0 6.0 6.0 (14.0) 8.0 10.0 12.0 8.0 12.0 8.0 8.0 10.0 107.0 93.0
9th 4 MB Villa 8.0 9.0 12.0 11.0 9.0 4.0 13.0 (22.0 DNS) 10.0 4.0 10.0 8.0 120.0 98.0
10th 23 Mark Scarpelli 10.0 10.0 7.0 12.0 (14.0) 12.0 14.0 13.0 2.0 14.0 7.0 6.0 121.0 107.0
11th 21 John McKnight 6.0 13.0 13.0 10.0 7.0 9.0 11.0 12.0 (17.0) 9.0 14.0 7.0 128.0 111.0
12th 5 Sharon Woodruff 14.0 7.0 8.0 5.0 13.0 (18.0) 10.0 14.0 5.0 13.0 16.0 9.0 132.0 114.0
13th 111 Mike Powers 12.0 12.0 4.0 15.0 10.0 15.0 9.0 7.0 15.0 12.0 3.0 (22.0 DNF) 136.0 114.0
14th 17 Skip Kaub 7.0 8.0 10.0 7.0 12.0 11.0 7.0 5.0 18.0 (22.0 DNF) 17.0 14.0 138.0 116.0
15th 12 Julian Roots 12.0 RDGa 12.0 RDGa 12.0 RDGa 12.0 RDGa 5.0 14.0 15.0 10.0 3.0 (22.0 DNF) 15.0 12.0 RDGa 144.0 122.0
16th 22 Marlyn Hahn 15.0 17.0 15.0 9.0 15.0 13.0 17.0 (22.0 DNS) 13.0 6.0 13.0 11.0 166.0 144.0
17th 2 Don Harper 16.0 14.0 (19.0) 13.0 17.0 17.0 16.0 6.0 19.0 15.0 6.0 12.0 170.0 151.0
18th 14 Barbara Bernstein 18.0 15.0 18.0 19.0 20.0 21.0 18.0 (22.0 DNS) 21.0 16.0 18.0 13.0 219.0 197.0
19th 18 Dan Kulkoski 13.0 11.0 16.0 17.0 18.0 19.0 (22.0 DNF) 22.0 DNS 16.0 22.0 DNF 22.0 DNS 22.0 DNF 220.0 198.0
20th 15 Kathy Kulkoski (22.0 DNF) 22.0 DNS 14.0 16.0 11.0 16.0 22.0 DNF 22.0 DNS 14.0 22.0 DNF 22.0 DNS 22.0 DNF 225.0 203.0
21st 25 Marylou Chambers 17.0 16.0 17.0 18.0 (22.0 OCS) 20.0 19.0 22.0 DNS 20.0 22.0 DNF 22.0 DNS 22.0 DNF 237.0 215.0

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: barbshort] #198447
12/07/09 01:36 PM
12/07/09 01:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
IndyWave Offline
enthusiast
IndyWave  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 342
Indianapolis, IN - Midwest USA...
Paying attention to Steve Abbey shows the inexperience of the RC. It should be written into the instructions to ignore anything Abbey says or does! smile


What - Me Worry?


2006 Hobie Wave 7358
"Ish Kabibble"
Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: IndyWave] #198453
12/07/09 01:52 PM
12/07/09 01:52 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Thanks for the report Rick. Sounds like a tough call. No one ever wants to toss a race, but sometimes it's the only fair thing to do for the fleet overall (as this case demonstrates). (Pepin, I don't know where you were going, but this is most definitely legal.)

While Dave and Leah were affected at the time, it's hard to say definitively that this would have affected the overall outcome of the 11-race event, even without Barb's re-calculation, which really puts it to bed.

All in all, looks like it was a great event. Congrats to the winners!

Mike

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: brucat] #198456
12/07/09 02:15 PM
12/07/09 02:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
RickWhite Offline

Carpal Tunnel
RickWhite  Offline

Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,355
Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ...
Glad Barb put that up.., at first I did not think it was a good call, and all that were sitting around when the decision was made all unified in one big GASP!
But, with 20/20 hind sight, it really was the right thing to do.

OK, story and pics are up on the Headline (Welcome) Page. just click on the Cat sailor icon top left to go there, or click on www.catsailor.com

Rick


Rick White
Catsailor Magazine & OnLineMarineStore.com
www.onlinemarinestore.com
Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: brucat] #198464
12/07/09 02:47 PM
12/07/09 02:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
pepin Offline
old hand
pepin  Offline
old hand

Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 976
France
Originally Posted by brucat
[...](Pepin, I don't know where you were going, but this is most definitely legal)[...]
As I said, given the sketchy details at the time I was intrigued on how the race could have been thrown out. And after Rick's update I still think the RC had no ground to toss the race away.

Let me do some armchair analysis, it won't hurt anyone as this does not change the scores, but will put my mind at rest smile

RRS 32.2 says:
Originally Posted by RRS
If the race committee signals a shortened course (displays flag S with two sounds), the finishing line shall be,
(a) at a rounding mark, between the mark and a staff displaying flag S;
(b) at a line boats are required to cross at the end of each lap, that line;
(c) at a gate, between the gate marks.


This implies that a shorten course *could not* be finished by passing through the finishing line as described. The line was not a required passage. So if the skippers were counting their laps properly there was no reason for them to alter course as you don't have to do so even for a shortened course.

The goal of that rule is so that you finish even if you don't see the shorten course (S) flag. If in doubt you can sail the full course and still keep your position safe.

Moreover the RC is *not* in charge of counting the laps. The competitors are. If a competitor crosses the line and claim he finished, heck give him a honk and record his time. He will be protested for not sailing his proper course if he miscounted.

Moreover RRS 32.1 states:
Originally Posted by RRS
However, after one boat has sailed the course and finished within the time limit, if any, the race committee shall not abandon the race without considering the consequences for all boats in the race or series.


That is a strong deterrent to toss a race out, whatever the conditions. Not to mention that audio signals on finish are not part of the rule at all and are just here as a courtesy to the sailor.

That's my view on it, but again, I'm not an expert, I haven't read the sailing instructions and they may change those rules.

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: pepin] #198467
12/07/09 03:29 PM
12/07/09 03:29 PM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Sounds like you guys had a blast...

Congrats to all and especially Jack!

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: ] #198470
12/07/09 04:06 PM
12/07/09 04:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
Pepin, I was just trying to say that it was a legal option for the PC to toss the race.

I agree with JW's post (although I still don't understand all the references to "engaging", must be an inside joke). Without having been in the hearing, and certainly without a bit more info on what the course and signals were at the time, all I can say is that at a minimum, there apprears to have been sufficient confusion that was in part started by an action of the RC, combined with no good way to put Humpty Dumpty back together again, equals race tossed.

Mike

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: brucat] #198473
12/07/09 04:20 PM
12/07/09 04:20 PM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
John Williams Offline
Carpal Tunnel
John Williams  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,293
Long Beach, California
[Linked Image]

engage...


John Williams

- The harder you practice, the luckier you get -
Gary Player, pro golfer

After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: John Williams] #198474
12/07/09 04:28 PM
12/07/09 04:28 PM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Make it so #1

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: ] #198475
12/07/09 05:12 PM
12/07/09 05:12 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



Awesome Star Trek reference. ANY TIME I can get Star Trek and sailing together, I am happy as a dog eating its own ****. If I could figure out how to put a pic on here I'd show my 14 main that had the Enterprise's number on it (1701 of course)

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: ] #198478
12/07/09 06:10 PM
12/07/09 06:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by xanderwess
Awesome Star Trek reference. ANY TIME I can get Star Trek and sailing together, I am happy as a dog eating its own ****. If I could figure out how to put a pic on here I'd show my 14 main that had the Enterprise's number on it (1701 of course)


You are such a fag.

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: pepin] #198479
12/07/09 06:25 PM
12/07/09 06:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Mary Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Mary  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH...
Pepin, two minor clarifications in your analysis:
First of all, the race committee did not toss the race, it was the protest committee at a hearing for redress.
Secondly, there were no shorten or change-course flags displayed for the race in question; so that was not an issue.

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: Mary] #198485
12/07/09 07:41 PM
12/07/09 07:41 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



Whatever, YOU'RE the one that single, neat and likes French boats. I am just a Trek Nerd and proud of it.

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: ] #198491
12/07/09 08:56 PM
12/07/09 08:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Karl_Brogger Offline
Carpal Tunnel
Karl_Brogger  Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn
Originally Posted by xanderwess
Whatever, YOU'RE the one that single, neat and likes French boats. I am just a Trek Nerd and proud of it.


Oh no. There's liking Star Trek, and there's liking Star Trek. You my friend fit in the latter category.

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: Karl_Brogger] #198494
12/07/09 09:09 PM
12/07/09 09:09 PM

X
xanderwess
Unregistered
xanderwess
Unregistered
X



I don't wear the uniform anywhere but around the house these days.......

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: ] #198542
12/08/09 11:58 AM
12/08/09 11:58 AM

A
andrewscott
Unregistered
andrewscott
Unregistered
A



Originally Posted by xanderwess
I don't wear the uniform anywhere but around the house these days.......

They have conventions for that sort of thing (and 12 step programs)

Re: IWCA Wave National results [Re: ] #198547
12/08/09 12:35 PM
12/08/09 12:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
B
brucat Offline
Carpal Tunnel
brucat  Offline
Carpal Tunnel
B

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969
OK, do we really need to know that you guys are running around in Star Trek Underoos on this site???

Conventions can be good. I have a friend who met his wife at one. Keeps that portion of the gene pool going, I guess...

Mike

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