| |  Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: Mary]
#198344
12/06/09 09:30 AM 12/06/09 09:30 AM |
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL Robi  OP
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL | All the past Cuba runs I know about have been done on Hobie 16's. Yeah just like the Worrell 1000s, but who in there right mind will do that AGAIN today? | | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#198349
12/06/09 11:40 AM 12/06/09 11:40 AM |
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus... catman
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus... |
I haven't, however over the 18 years I had that boat I put through hell. Buoys, distance. It was sailed almost daily for the first two years I had it. Crashing through waves with five people on board with two on the wire. The mid 80's boats had problems with the hulls as the pic's show. It's not the fastest or the best design but if I was going to do the race I would feel quite confidant on it.
Have Fun
| | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: catman]
#198353
12/06/09 12:51 PM 12/06/09 12:51 PM |
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W Todd_Sails
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844
42.904444 N; 88.008586 W | Catman,
I understand your point. Having sailed many boats, I've seen and heard of boats having widespread, or common problems, etc. Even the boats I've owned, etc.
I haven't checked the average prevailing winds for that area and that time of year. Those that have, what's common? Either direction be able to carry the chute, etc?
I have the experience with offshore distance races, experience crewing or driving with the kite up, long distances, buoys, etc. My current fitness level is great. I have the gear, and the money for my part, etc.
If I buy another boat, than I need crew who can do what I'm offering to do.
If anyone is interested, I'm @ 160#'s, etc.
Todd Bouton
Todd_Sails@yahoo.com
F-18 Infusion
#626- SOLD it!
'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
| | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: Robi]
#198358
12/06/09 01:43 PM 12/06/09 01:43 PM |
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay HMurphey
addict
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addict
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 699
SE Pa. or Chesapeak Bay | Robi,
Why are you "dissing" my favorite boat ... do you have something against a TheMightyHobie18??? I'll take a TheMightyHobie18 ANYTIME, ANYWHERE ... it is one tough boat and has brought me home safely EVERYTIME!!!! And yes most of that sailing has been off of "Atlantic Open Ocean" beaches. A TheMightyHobie18 was the first beach cat to transit the Atlantic on it's own bottoms (by two crazy frenchman) .... it is the only beach cat to transit the "Northwest Passage" also.
So you are dissing a very capable "clunker" ..... slowwer then a F18 or a N20, Yes ... but very capable!!!!
If the gentlemen in question wants a boat w/ "racks", it's either the H18SE w/ Magnum wings ... or the H21SE (which has wings) and spinnacker. And then there is the Mystere' 6.0 w/ wings also. The P19 and Nacra 5.8/6.0 all had a factory "wing" option availible but I never saw one installed and sailed. Only on boats at the A.C. Boat Show years ago and the wings looked fragile.
Ask Robbie Daniels about his years of racing a H21SE .... heavy, yes, but big strong and durable .....
And remember ... to finish first ... first you have to finish. I think this event will not be about pure boat speed ... but more about survival!!!!
Harry Murphey
PS: I would carry a "hand" bilge pump on board. A lesson/trick I learned from Mr Rick Bliss. Not a bad idea ... right Mr Todd????
Last edited by HMurphey; 12/06/09 01:49 PM.
| | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: HMurphey]
#198362
12/06/09 03:48 PM 12/06/09 03:48 PM |
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL Robi OP
Carpal Tunnel
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OP
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 2,718
St Petersburg FL | Robi,
Why are you "dissing" my favorite boat ... do you have something against a TheMightyHobie18??? I'll take a TheMightyHobie18 ANYTIME, ANYWHERE ... it is one tough boat and has brought me home safely EVERYTIME!!!! And yes most of that sailing has been off of "Atlantic Open Ocean" beaches. A TheMightyHobie18 was the first beach cat to transit the Atlantic on it's own bottoms (by two crazy frenchman) .... it is the only beach cat to transit the "Northwest Passage" also.
So you are dissing a very capable "clunker" ..... slowwer then a F18 or a N20, Yes ... but very capable!!!!
If the gentlemen in question wants a boat w/ "racks", it's either the H18SE w/ Magnum wings ... or the H21SE (which has wings) and spinnacker. And then there is the Mystere' 6.0 w/ wings also. The P19 and Nacra 5.8/6.0 all had a factory "wing" option availible but I never saw one installed and sailed. Only on boats at the A.C. Boat Show years ago and the wings looked fragile.
Ask Robbie Daniels about his years of racing a H21SE .... heavy, yes, but big strong and durable .....
And remember ... to finish first ... first you have to finish. I think this event will not be about pure boat speed ... but more about survival!!!!
Harry Murphey
PS: I would carry a "hand" bilge pump on board. A lesson/trick I learned from Mr Rick Bliss. Not a bad idea ... right Mr Todd???? You know a lot of things in life are capable. I am sure people are capable of rowing across the pacific does it mean its safe? The Hobie 18 is perfectly capable, is it safe? HELL NO, any hobie 18 will be old and weathered, unless someone really overhauls that particular boat, it is NOT a good idea for such a crossing on a Hobie 18 or even a Hobie 16. I know what I am capable of, I know my safety limits and one thing is for SURE, you will never catch me on a hobie 18 attempting such a thing. To each its own. What bothers me is when people do not properly prepare and then expect my fellow Guardians to put there lives on the line for them. Just a few months ago we lost SEVEN folks, that is SEVEN, fathers, mothers, brothers sisters etc you name it while they were searching for a missing sailing vessel. A good amount of years back a HH65 flew into a cliff off San Fracisco while looking for an overdue sailing that vessel that the next morning showed up at anchor. The Coast Guard should NOT save stupidity and crossing from Key West to Cuba in a Hobie 14/16/18/ is plain STUPID. The right boat for the right race. There is a reason why the Tybee is only limited to N20s and F18s. | | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: Robi]
#198364
12/06/09 04:07 PM 12/06/09 04:07 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI | any hobie 18 will be old and weathered That is an overly broad statement, as Stephen Cooley will undoubtedly inform you. Hobie 18's were available new up until a couple of years ago, and new hulls are being manufactured this spring. ANY catamaran in anything but near-new condition has no business in this race. Other than the difference in offwind speed, there's no reason why a Hobie 16 couldn't do this, just as they did the Worrell 1000 thirty-five years ago - without engaging the services of the US Coast Guard. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.catsailor.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10063/76%20-%20Worrel%201000%20Ad%20sized.jpg) | | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: mbounds]
#198365
12/06/09 04:24 PM 12/06/09 04:24 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... Mary
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 5,558
Key Largo, FL & Put-in-Bay, OH... | I think the thing that makes the crossing more dangerous is doing it as a "race." If you do it in "cruise" mode, where you pick the best weather time and all the boats stay together and watch out for each other, or have a buddy system or something, it would be a lot safer. Do the triangle racing in Cuba, and then cruise back together as a fleet. | | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: HMurphey]
#198373
12/06/09 07:21 PM 12/06/09 07:21 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,884
Detroit, MI | Matt,
Who is that on the wire????
It sure looks like a (much) younger Wally ....
Harry Murphey It's not Wally. I'm not sure who it is, but the driver is almost certainly Mike Worrell. | | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: ejpoulsen]
#198396
12/07/09 09:08 AM 12/07/09 09:08 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590
Naples, FL | I would agree that making it a "race" adds another layer of complexity and hazard than "cruise". But two boats together rarely "cruise"....  Given average conditions on the proposed route, what would be the minimum reasonable craft that could make the journey in the designated time period? I guess it would be ideal to have boats with similar capabilities, in order to keep the "fleet" in reasonable proximity to the support craft. And I agree with Robi, I don't believe that our tax money should be spent bailing out the reckless and/or foolish who venture into something wholely unprepared. I know it happens, but I still don't like it..
Jay
| | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#198404
12/07/09 09:32 AM 12/07/09 09:32 AM |
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl ksurfer2
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl | Right now, my concerns stem mostly from the organizers. In a recent article in SA, it was stated that there are already 33 teams signed up. Who are these teams and where did they sign up? There is nothing on the website regarding registering. Also, the use of a Hobie 33 is a concern. A boat that will not be able to keep up with the fleet under power of under sail will not be much of a chase boat.
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
| | |  Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: Robi]
#198426
12/07/09 11:05 AM 12/07/09 11:05 AM |
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus... catman
Pooh-Bah
|
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,658
Florida Suncoast, Dunedin Caus... | I don't know for sure but since you choose the N-20 and F-18"s I guess we have to ask. These boats never break? I've read about the bow tangs failing on N-20's. You can't furl the jib on these boat to shorten sail if needed.
What are the chances of a plastic sail surviving during a capsize if someone lands in it? Zero from experience. On the H-18 I would aim for it, never had a failure.
Like I said I don't want to turn this into a boat thing. You can make a case for or against any boat.
Just so we understand. "Open Ocean" to me doesn't mean coastal sailing/ racing in the Gulf, Atlantic, etc. To me it means out of sight and simple communication with land. I have been on the open ocean sailing/racing Mono's.
How many people here have true open ocean experience on cats?
Just thinking, Hans sailed to Mexico from Florida two different times on a G-5.7. Would that boat qualify to make the passage?
I agree with you about the dangers of the race. Like anything be prepared as best as you can and then cross your fingers. Hopefully the organizers will plan for chase boats to shadow the fleet.
Remember, you choose that line of work. Taking to the Sea or Air for any reason presents dangers.
I don't think you'll find anyone that doesn't agree with you when you speak of the dangers of your job and I sincerely thank you and your kind.
Have Fun
| | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: catman]
#198429
12/07/09 11:38 AM 12/07/09 11:38 AM |
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
Carpal Tunnel
|
Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,655
Portland, Maine | I've read about the bow tangs failing on N-20's. You can't furl the jib on these boat to shorten sail if needed. I've read of exactly one breaking on these forums. Its certainly not a pandemic. N20's are subject to all the regular causes of boat failure. Poor maintenance, reckless abuse, catastrophic accidents do not escape the 20 or the F18s. What they do give is a balance of performance, seaworthiness, and reliability. The reasons I have for thinking that the TheMightyHobie18 is not well suited to this race has to do with the fact that its simply not up to par in the performance meter with the other competitive boats. If the event turns into more of a race than a rally, and the organizers get more than a pigboat Hobie 33 as a chase boat, then I'll seriously consider doing this race. (if it even happens, which I put at 50/50) | | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: catman]
#198432
12/07/09 12:05 PM 12/07/09 12:05 PM |
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl ksurfer2
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,152
tampa, fl | I don't know for sure but since you choose the N-20 and F-18"s I guess we have to ask. These boats never break? I've read about the bow tangs failing on N-20's. You can't furl the jib on these boat to shorten sail if needed.
What are the chances of a plastic sail surviving during a capsize if someone lands in it? Zero from experience. On the H-18 I would aim for it, never had a failure.
Like I said I don't want to turn this into a boat thing. You can make a case for or against any boat.
Just so we understand. "Open Ocean" to me doesn't mean coastal sailing/ racing in the Gulf, Atlantic, etc. To me it means out of sight and simple communication with land. I have been on the open cean sailing/racing Mono's.
How many people here have true open ocean experience on cats?
Just thinking, Hans sailed to Mexico from Florida two different times on a G-5.7. Would that boat qualify to make the passage?
I agree with you about the dangers of the race. Like anything be prepared as best as you can and then cross your fingers. Hopefully the organizers will plan for chase boats to shadow the fleet.
Remember, you choose that line of work. Taking to the Sea or Air for any reason presents dangers.
I don't think you'll find anyone that doesn't agree with you when you speak of the dangers of your job and I sincerely thank you and your kind.
Exactly why I question the choice of chase boats for this event, and why I have already arranged for a chase boat of my own.
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son
I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one
| | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: ksurfer2]
#198436
12/07/09 12:31 PM 12/07/09 12:31 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,118
Northfield Mn | Exactly why I question the choice of chase boats for this event, and why I have already arranged for a chase boat of my own. I think that's the only way I'd do it, but I don't have much experience on big water, and I'm a bit of a pussy. | | | Re: That Cuban Run
[Re: ksurfer2]
#198439
12/07/09 12:48 PM 12/07/09 12:48 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina Jake
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 12,310
South Carolina | I don't know for sure but since you choose the N-20 and F-18"s I guess we have to ask. These boats never break? I've read about the bow tangs failing on N-20's. You can't furl the jib on these boat to shorten sail if needed.
What are the chances of a plastic sail surviving during a capsize if someone lands in it? Zero from experience. On the H-18 I would aim for it, never had a failure.
Like I said I don't want to turn this into a boat thing. You can make a case for or against any boat.
Just so we understand. "Open Ocean" to me doesn't mean coastal sailing/ racing in the Gulf, Atlantic, etc. To me it means out of sight and simple communication with land. I have been on the open cean sailing/racing Mono's.
How many people here have true open ocean experience on cats?
Just thinking, Hans sailed to Mexico from Florida two different times on a G-5.7. Would that boat qualify to make the passage?
I agree with you about the dangers of the race. Like anything be prepared as best as you can and then cross your fingers. Hopefully the organizers will plan for chase boats to shadow the fleet.
Remember, you choose that line of work. Taking to the Sea or Air for any reason presents dangers.
I don't think you'll find anyone that doesn't agree with you when you speak of the dangers of your job and I sincerely thank you and your kind.
Exactly why I question the choice of chase boats for this event, and why I have already arranged for a chase boat of my own. Karl, if I do this race, will you be my chase boat? 
Jake Kohl
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