| Re: Why does Macca hate F16s?
[Re: Aido]
#205821 03/16/10 02:49 PM 03/16/10 02:49 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Nobody's Viper bashing, the Viper is a great boat, that's not the issue.
And I was not serious about a Pro division, but it sure seems like the F18's racing in Europe have become just that, at least all the top spots, that's what I'm trying to avoid here.
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: Why does Macca hate F16s?
[Re: Aido]
#205822 03/16/10 03:05 PM 03/16/10 03:05 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
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Posts: 5,525 | Thats it timbo. Bust the class up into smaller and smaller divisions until you win something. Forget about trying to learn something from people like Macca. NOT!
We get some sensible veiwpoints from some unbiased outsiders but just ignore them and then its straight back into Macca and Viper bashing from the same clowns. Pathetic. Macca isn't trying to teach anything, but there are others who are. And I will be spending time and money learning from them.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Why does Macca hate F16s?
[Re: Aido]
#205828 03/16/10 03:50 PM 03/16/10 03:50 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,021 Australia macca
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Posts: 1,021 Australia | Thats it timbo. Bust the class up into smaller and smaller divisions until you win something. Forget about trying to learn something from people like Macca. NOT!
We get some sensible veiwpoints from some unbiased outsiders but just ignore them and then its straight back into Macca and Viper bashing from the same clowns. Pathetic. I was surprised that the well put, logical and balanced posts by Steve and Tigermike (he must be working for hobie.. ) were simply ignored, But then I remembered that this whole thread was started to bash me, so its only fair that logical arguments are passed over in favour of Macca bashing. | | | Re: Why does Macca hate F16s?
[Re: macca]
#205831 03/16/10 04:18 PM 03/16/10 04:18 PM |
Joined: Jul 2009 Posts: 120 Brett Goodall
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Posts: 120 | Timbo.... who are these pros on free boats you keep talking about? There has only been once time, to my knowledge, that a pro has been given a boat.
But I see your point, sailing on the same course and having pros and Olympians in your class is not good for it at all. Bigger all the sponsorship and coverage that comes with it.
Last edited by Brett Goodall; 03/16/10 04:19 PM.
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: Jalani]
#205836 03/16/10 05:10 PM 03/16/10 05:10 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,021 Australia macca
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Posts: 1,021 Australia | Wow! This thread is turning into an epic.
Andrew, from the brief chat that we had at Carnac, I discern you to be basically a nice guy who likes his sailing. You also (occasionally) seem to make a valid point or two. As you've pointed out, this forum is a discussion board and some of the discussion in this thread is genuinely interesting - I won't go into what the rest of it is - so discuss away but please don't expect the class rules to change in favour of any particular builder anytime soon. Hi John, I have no expectations of the class changing the rules based on the discussion here. This whole thread started after I defended Wouter (of all people!) regarding his reasonable expectation to have his measurement certificate completed. Since then its been a full on bash-a-thon aimed at me and my crazy, "twisted logic" ideas that all aim to ensure longevity, commercial viability and good fair racing. | | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: macca]
#205837 03/16/10 05:54 PM 03/16/10 05:54 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 322 South Australia Marcus F16
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 322 South Australia | [quote=]So, not sure where the 30k went.... [/quote] Well you spent between 5 & 6 K on the steering.!
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: Marcus F16]
#205838 03/16/10 06:13 PM 03/16/10 06:13 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Brett, when it comes to changing class rules, I think the boat -owners- should be the only ones voting.
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: Tony_F18]
#205841 03/16/10 06:39 PM 03/16/10 06:39 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | That is being researched right now, to see if it is "members" or "Owners"
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: Marcus F16]
#205842 03/16/10 06:44 PM 03/16/10 06:44 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,021 Australia macca
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Posts: 1,021 Australia | Well you spent between 5 & 6 K on the steering.! More like $2,682 AUD. Just checked the spreadsheet And before any smartie asks, That is for two complete rudders including stocks.
Last edited by macca; 03/16/10 06:47 PM.
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: macca]
#205844 03/16/10 07:19 PM 03/16/10 07:19 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 142 3 weeks Newman WA 1 week Robe ... Brian P
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Posts: 142 3 weeks Newman WA 1 week Robe ... | guys, all i can say is thanks for the very entertaining 2 and a half hours at work i have spent reading this thread!! hahahahahaah havent had this much fun since i watched my boss try and climb over an electric fence into a paddock of goats, not only getting zapped but getting strung up on the barbed wire while being butted in the butt by a goat with one broken sharp horn!!!! i do not sail F16 but previous boat was a mossie, could be F16 but now sailing a stingray. not the most technilogically adavnced boat, but value for money. if people want to spend $15-30K on a boat good on them! it leaves those of us with not so huge budgets, to own the not as popular classes for a fraction of the cost!!!
Brian Partridge STINGRAY 580 "Fantasia" A Class 585 "FHARKEN A"
YOU CAN'T POLISH A TURD BUT YOU CAN ROLL IT IN GLITTER!!!!!
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: Darryl_Barrett]
#205857 03/16/10 09:19 PM 03/16/10 09:19 PM |
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 242 Brisveagas Aido
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Posts: 242 Brisveagas | Macca's assertion that "money" will buy a faster boat in a "formula class is completely misleading and incorrect. It doesn't matter how much carbon, Kevlar, and money you plough into a formula boat when the current boats are at the limits of the "box rule" IE they are at their minimum weight, max' sail area etc and by using any other material doesn't give any advantage, it just costs more with no returns. The only changes that can effect performance are with an "improved" hull and/or sail shape which can occur just as easily with the "lower cost" materials as with more exotic ones. So the "money buys championships" argument by Macca is just a nonsense. Thats the point Darryl. None of the current boats are on minimum weight. Except for a few tiapans and the mythical Aussie blade. From what i can gather measurement certificates don't exist. And if they did no ones allowed to look at them. If exotics give no returns then why did you build an all carbon f14?
Aido Viper 288
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: Aido]
#205859 03/16/10 10:21 PM 03/16/10 10:21 PM |
Joined: Sep 2006 Posts: 586 Hobart, Tasmania, Oz. Dazz
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Posts: 586 Hobart, Tasmania, Oz. | I bet Darryl could build a f16 to weight and not too expensive either. is it a project you have considered Darryl?
C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design "Darph Bobo"
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: Dazz]
#205862 03/16/10 11:01 PM 03/16/10 11:01 PM |
Joined: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,012 South Australia Darryl_Barrett
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Posts: 1,012 South Australia | We already do build a Blade to minimum weight and at the same price (retail) as quoted by Marcus. We also use a large percentage of carbon and Kevlar (one – soon to be two - with a carbon mast as well as the standard carbon rudders and centre boards - not primarily for weight saving - but for strength and longevity of the boat, in fact the material cost difference between carbon, Kevlar and “standard” fibre glass is not a great percentage of the overall costs of the boat, the main costs are in build time (labour) and Macca, to the contrary, my "argument” is solid for the allowance of the use of ANY materials that an owner desires with no detriment to the "class/formula". Why should anything be banned when it/they have no detrimental effects to the class? If you start banning simply for the sake of banning for some “airy fairy, perceived, maybe” scenario it opens the floodgates and you are treading a very slippery slope. Your “argument” is not based on any fact within the class. If and when the things that you pose should happen, surely then is the time to take the required action, to do as you say now would only damage the growth of the class and I assume that is not the reason for your posturising? | | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: Aido]
#205864 03/16/10 11:29 PM 03/16/10 11:29 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 322 South Australia Marcus F16
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Posts: 322 South Australia | Except for a few tiapans and the mythical Aussie blade ASSUME = butt out of U & Me. Cat rigged blade with carbon in the foils weighed 105kgs & you will wintess this for your self at the nationals next month. From what i can gather measurement certificates don't exist. And if they did no ones allowed to look at them. Where did that rubbish come from.? Have you asked.? [/quote]
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
| | | Re: Macca logic
[Re: macca]
#205865 03/16/10 11:31 PM 03/16/10 11:31 PM |
Joined: Mar 2005 Posts: 322 South Australia Marcus F16
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Posts: 322 South Australia | Well you spent between 5 & 6 K on the steering.! More like $2,682 AUD. Just checked the spreadsheet And before any smartie asks, That is for two complete rudders including stocks. I was actually quoting figures you told me when you first recieved them. I have a good memory for this sort of stuff.
Marcus Towell
Formula Catamarans Aust Pty Ltd
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