If it got to that point, it'd be every man for himself.Also don't confuse my passion for a boat with blindly following the "class/factory" direction.

Tad,
You sure are mouthy for a non-sailing, rum owing BIITTTTCCCCHHHHHHH!

That was pretty good ,but you said you weren't going to respond to him anymore.

You're right.

I can't help myself.

Its the diet coke talking.

Thanks Guys, it was getting pretty old on the Drill thread, this is much more fun than watching everyone bash hobie1616

Todd, I haven't raced against an F18 in bouys racing so I didn't know the result that F18s are faster around the bouys as well?

Todd etal,


AND this is where it breaks down for me. Why does the builder own the class? Is it because we haven't stepped up to own the class via organizational effort?

Btw, I think John contributions are fine

And now a guy that doesn't own an N20 or even race has to jump in the fray.So much for this thread.

This thread needs some love.

Hey Tad,
Have you ever thought what you'd look like(Besides gay,nttiawwt) from a helicopter, in a whitecap strewn ocean if you got separated from the boat, in that get-up.

Yup and thats why I brought dye packs with me.

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...eNum=8&subdeptNum=50&classNum=51

So then you'd look like a bright green queer.Not that there is anything wrong with that,especially if bright green is your color.

Wasn't SCHRS used for the last Tybee? Uh oh.

JW, is spot on about the coaching in the F18 class. I didn't spend a dime on that part the game before I got into the F18 class and now it's a significant part of the budget. I'll let you in on a little secret, the F16 guys are getting coaching too.

You know you guys can do exactly what Mark Smith did, go get yourself a set of sails from your favorite sailmaker cut to exact spec you want, take very small dpn hit and go sailing. You have a real world example of what a new sail plan will do, does it meet your expectations?

To say that the N20 owners who are being vocal here haven't invested in the development of their own personal sailing skills is laughable to the point of being outright insulting.

Dude, you might want to ask for your money back.

I never mentioned that I was one of them David.

Maybe the N20 class members have to consider where they want to position the class.

Its always going to be hard to keep up with a development class like the F18 in terms of performance, but does that make your boats any worse to sail?

You are still shitloads faster than a laser, less work and for sure more fun..

The 5.8 class in Australia has become a solid one design class in it's own right, they decided not to try and hold the top dog status and focus on what the boat was good at: even, fun, simple racing. Everybody is happy and they still sail with dacron sails and old school boats.

Make it more about the class than the boat and you are a long way to assuring longevity.

Hi Guys,

I am just crew on an N20 with both Tad and Trey at different times, but I can share re John William's concerns that people are definitely practicing on the N20s and are looking at coaching as well. I'm a big believer in coaching and used to be part of a team that got pro coaching each Tuesday at Treasure Island on 505s. I've been trying to do the same with the 20s and locally, several teams have worked together recently on items including rig tuning, boat handling, crew / helm / boat trading, etc. We've also worked on running dedicated clinics with coaches flown in. While it's not as intense as what I have done in the past and I'm sure not as intense as other classes, it's getting there. Hopefully the results will show in this year's Tybee though I think as whole more is needed.

Doing more coaching sessions is key to keeping any class alive, independent of sails. You could see the higher level of caliber in the F18s at Tradewinds where more boats kept racing in the big breeze. Sail design can help in this, but not as much as time on the water.

I'd like to see the N20 evolve as the owners recently discussed because it's a good cheap-speed class and can continue to serve multiple purposes. It also seems to bring new blood into high performance cat sailing. A great benefit to multihulls in general that I'm sure we all agree on.

In my mind the top two person competition is in the F18s now and that will remain the case no matter what. I don't think anyone will sell an F18 to get into a 20, but I do think some folks may move the other way as the New England Gangsta's did. I don't blame them at all. Some people probably will never switch and some people will buy 20s with no interest in F18s. That is fine too.

One of the reasons I like cat sailing compared to dinghies is the laid back, positive nature of the folks who sail them. I hope this discussion can fall back to that level rather than what I see above.

That's the old Ding we know and love.
Did you ever find my pet spider?

A quick question from an outsider. If the N-20 sail plan is opened up would that open competion to other 20 ft boats. IE Hobie Fox with equal sails?

Nope, it would still be one design, just not SMOD.
A formula 20 class would be needed for that.

Jdub's opinion matters to me. He has the tenure, experience, maturity in this sport to offer valuable insite, and the fact that he does not own the 20 might let him offer his opinion/knowledge without bias.