Like I said, it's all part of the game, and I don't see that changing anytime soon. It's unfortunate that this didn't get worked out in advance, but only because it was a Youth event. It was still a major qualifier, and rule issues should be anticipated.

BTW, my understanding is that the Corinthian spirit tells you to follow the rules when no one else is looking, not to make reasons for others not to follow them.

Mike

Another question would be why are they being allowed by clubs/parents/coaches to sail in PFD's that do not meet the standards prescribed in the SI's?

That's my take to, in case their was some confusion.

Hi Mike -

In anticipation of this very issue, the RO and PC worked together in preparing the SIs to say that the penalty might be something less than DSQ.

Perfect. I've seen these things handled that way as well. More typically around here, we are moving to statements that violations of safety rules are not subject to protest by another boat (inference is that RC or PC can protest).

Not that any of that helps when SIs are silent on the issue...

Mike

Would you mind providing the text so we can use it as a boiler plate.

Thank you in advance.

From the HCA standard SI template:

15.6 Breaches of instructions [list SI section numbers related to safety] will not be grounds for a protest by a boat. This changes RRS 60.1(a). Penalties for these breaches may be less than disqualification if the protest committee so decides. The scoring abbreviation for a discretionary penalty imposed under this instruction will be DPI.

I have seen this modified for non-Hobie events to say:
Breaches of safety rules will not be grounds for a protest by a boat... (This would get you around prescriptions, class rules, etc. in case you forget to specifically list one: paddles, whistles, etc. sometimes show up in class rules.)

Here is the link: http://www.hcana.hobieclass.com/sit...urces/2009%20HCA-NA%20Standard%20SIs.doc

I wrote this SI template, based on RRS Appendix L and some Hobie traditions, and reviewed/tweaked by a team that included Matt Bounds, Irene McNeill, and other certified folks.

Hope this helps.

Mike

It does help and thank you.

Not to confuse the issue, but I just posted that language to answer the question of how to make safety rules "optional" within SIs.

HCA does NOT make any attempt to change PFD requirements, or any other class rule changes. If you read the SI template, you will see that the safety section is really about check-ins, etc.

I HAVE seen language added to cut down on "safety protests" at lots of other regattas, and while I really don't like it on a personal level, it can help to alleviate what some consider to be "frivilous" protests (for class rules requiring paddles, whistles, etc.).

Personally, I don't think individual events should mess with class rules. That's just part of growing up with the militant SMOD Hobie rules, I guess.

I also feel farily strongly that we should just follow the local laws, which is what USSA is saying in their RX. I don't want to debate CE vs. USCG, but it's always dangerous for an OA to attempt to sidestep USSA or worse, local laws.

Mike

I skimmed this thread last night and had the same thought. Why can't the SI's just say "adequate flotation device" and leave it at that.

Then again, without some specific definition, a protest committee would have random results if tested on "what is adequate"? Does that mean legal? Does that mean floats the person adequately? Does adequate in that context mean face up? All of a sudden a limited definition for a flotation device leaves the barn door open for a lot of interpretation.

I think the only option is to leave out the requirement entirely but then that brings up other valid questions.

The real problem here is the CG requirement. They require the flotation to be balanced in such a manner that the CG approved life jackets simply aren't comfortable for what we do (must float face up resulting in much flotation in the front) and they require a cumbersome and expensive approval process. This is really the problem here.

The rules only apply so long as people agree to follow them. US Sailing has no army to enforce them. If you want to make up your own rules that say port has right of way over starboard and then invite all your friends to an event under those rules, no one is going to stop you. Similarly if you want to amend the rules as you see fit, no one is going to stop you. They may tell you that you can’t do it, but that’s about all they can do. It’s a classic case of "stop or I'll say stop again."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N1Hz2_gdh4

Then I think the question would be, "What is adequate floatation?" Which is sort of what the whole CG cert defines.

Here's a question. Eliminating any application process, would the vests in question pass the CG flotation criteria?

The major players would not only pass but exceed. I believe I was told that many of the CE approved PFDs will actually float more weight.
It boils down to bureaucracy and dollars/greed. Go figure.

OK, say the port/starboard rules are reversed (port has ROW) in the SIs. This is contrary to RRS 86.1 which says that the SIs cannot change a rule in Part 2 (ROW rules).

We get into a P/S confrontation. I'm on stbd, you're on port. You "win" because of the SIs, but I immediately request redress because of the rule 86 violation. I win, you lose. No jury would think twice about it.

As far as the PFD issue is concerned, the IHCA Class Rules state:


So if you wear one of the non-USCG approved PFDs, you are violating the US Sailing prescription and the class rules. That might even call for a Rule 2 / Rule 69 action.

Matt, that the violation exists isn't the point; that part is inarguable. The part I'm curious about regards such widespread violation of the rule and a fundamental question of why the rule exists only in the US and affects only US sailors... except when they compete outside the US.

USA the land of the free and the brave...

CRAZINESS!

Took me a while to find it, but here's the process of getting a PFD approved. I wonder how much UL charges, there is no talk of cost on the Coast Guard site.



Here's the Site

That's what I said later in my post.

No I win because I chose the jury. If I'm going to change the rules in my hypothetical regatta I'm going to make sure the jury will go along with it. Basically this regatta would not be held under US Sailing rules.
This may sound kind of crazy but it has happened. Back many years ago I sailed some races under an experimental simplified set of rules. This was long before US Sailing adopted them and that's kind of my point. If there is enough consensus and the behavior of a majority of sailors does not conform to the rules, then eventually the rules will be changed to conform to the behavior.