And so the Aussie dogs are back snapping at the heels of the class. Isn't it time we simply did a Sailing Anarchy thing ( Frank Lord ) and ban them from this Forum, then perhaps we can get on with having decent discussions about our boats. It was quite noticiable how quickly the SA forum improved in quality of discussion about foils when Frank had been given the boot.

To be fair on them we have heard them, discussed with them, asked politely, even tried to ask them to genuinely become part of the class by trying the boats on a regular basis, but no they still come back with the same old arguments despite the almost universal opposition of the majority of the active class members.

Macca if you don't want to be remembered as the Frank Lord of the F16 Forums then my recommendation is that go with your beliefs and set up the class that you think is the most practical and commercial 16 footer and get on with establishing that class. Establish the class, set up the Forums here on Catsailor, its all avaialble and doable if you really want to.

If you don't like what he says just put him on ignore. Simple.

Banning is not the answer Wayne. I like to think that we are a tolerant, inclusive bunch. If you don't like the discussion, don't get involved......

Occasionally, just occasionally, a valid and interesting point is put and a sensible, considered discussion can ensue.
I haven't yet seen any of the CS threads descend to the depths and the level of abuse seen on SA - nor do I expect it - and while that is the case we should welcome all discussions.

And stop refering to Aussies as dogs, sick of seeing that.

My argument is valid in that the majority of threads are being turned into a F16 weight issue by Macca, regardless of what the original thread was about. We have been there, discussed it at length and the majority on this forum favour the rules as they are.

Continue as things are and this same issue will be repeated over and over spoiling any real discussion on other matters. That will distract from the class and possibly be detrimental to the class as this forum is pivotal in getting the message out to other interested parties.

As I stated earlier once a certain member of SA was banned ( and I was against that as I felt he was being goaded unfairly )the discussion on foils became much more open and beneficial to all.

Farmer, if you want to misconstrue my words then by all means be "sick of seeing that " as in my opinion it would seem those that are most vocal and anti the class establishing at 107 kilos are from Aussie and continue to hound us like a pack of dogs snapping at our heels.

Now coming from down under myself I know that the majority of Aussies are pretty good blokes and I have had a lot of fun over the years with my fellow Antipodeans.

I think Wayne has a point here.

There is a difference between disagreeing in public and supporting a disinformation/slander campaign. I'm all for the first and feel we should come down full force on the last.

It is indeed true that abusive poster can be ignored, but sadly this forum and the internet as a whole is one of the more important promotion channels for the F16 class. But poisoning these resources they actively attack and disrupt things for this class. We can not allow that to happen.

I also agree with Wayne that there are striking similarities between the various distractors, geographic location being one of them. Yet, I prefer to still address them personally. I also like to call on all builders to put an end to the current ambiquety.

I don't know who is propelling the "35K scare quote for a full compliant F16" but I sure hope it isn't any builder (or agent) associated with the F16 class. Because such lack of respect for his or her fellow F16 builders can not be tolerated much longer. The time has come to close the ranks !

If we stick together publically and work the scene (last remaining distractors) on the background then we can take back thee initiative and present the truthful image of the F16 class and the various makes.

That is all for now.

Wouter

I don't know Wouter, the A class has almost no public discussion and they seem to be doing quite well. Likewise the F18 class.

It may be time to generate a much more private forum.

Posted on the F18 forum. Seems like reason enough to ban Dazz. Brings nothing to the table.

We already have a solution: http://www.formula16.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=1

I definitely don't want Macca there and would vote to ban him, assuming there was such a vote.

Ignoring him works well for me.

Said in jest I would think but have a look at the boat details " Capricorn AUS 1160 " of the poster

As much as i hate to add fuel to the fire. 3.00 minutes into the interview "the price would be more than an a-class"

Must be something Australian to call a spade a spade, have you forgotten that Wayne?

Have you seen the effin' beams on the Viper? Holy cow they must be overbuilt (or off a F18) .... have you picked up a rudder assembly (including rudder) of the Viper versus other brands of F16s???? There is some weight to be saved without much effort.

The Viper is getting the press b/c who is sailing it - nothing else. The US F16 Nats showed that other boats are comparable - with less professional sailors, might I add.

The Viper is a fast boat (I've owned one) - but it surely cannot be called state of the art. That being said: AHPC makes great stuff, well thought out, fantastic finish work, awesome sail shape - but it is a BIG F16.

Flame on ... IDGAS.

There are a$$holes with agendas everywhere. Fact of life. Want me to show you my spade?

Sadly that is the problem, all Aussie's seem to be taking everything a Aussie says as being gospel, they need to look further outside Australia and they will find another outlook.

Take Gregs statement that an optimised F16 will cost more than an A class. We have in one corner a fully carboned masted Falcon, in the other corner a Marstrom A, both state of the art, built to weight and class rules, which do you think would be the most costliest.

How about this:-

You all keep sailing on the internet and he rest of us will actually go out there and do the sport.

And if any of you who want me off this forum are ever wanting my help, you know the answer..

To be honest, its not a very healthy forum if you have multiple threads all targeting one individual who's views are supported by many of their peers in the top of their profession (which by the way is cat sailing..) yet you seem to get your kicks out of continually attacking an individual ..

Ooooh, you poor little thing..

I don't think it's fair that ALL Aussies are tarnished with the same brush. Most of us like the banter. Most of us just go sailing and enjoy ourselves.

Who really give's a crap about what other who don't own a F16 think.

Us Aussies have brought the F16 world 4 designs so far 3 that are being commercially built.

I personally think you need to pull your head in. Go pull your boat out of the shed and go for a sail. It will certainly clear you head and you will forget for a while ALL the crap that goes on here.

Macca,

I have a few question for you. You have been banging on about ALL sort's of issues you have with the F16 so please can you answer these questions.

F16 rules have been around for a while.

1) Why have we not seen this so called Super F16?
2)If your Sailing peer's at the top of the profession have a problem with F16. Why have they never hit a forum to put forward there views?
3)Are you the spokesman for the people at the top?
4) If so who voted you in?
5)Do you no why three of the biggest cat Manufactures in the world are unable to build boats at weights around 107kg without using exotic materials?
6) Have you been able to sail a Viper in a decent breeze?
7) Can you tell what you thought about the product?

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

PS I don't think it's good form to ban anyone for there views even if you don't agree with them.

Macca, I can only say you have bought this on yourself.

You are forgetting the common sailor employs you and not your superior peers, without the ordinary sailor paying your wages and being on your side you will never be elected to govern. To date on this F16 forum, you have not converted those ordinary sailors into following your beliefs and gospel so therefore you are not employed by us as our spokesman