| |  Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: pgp]
#212502
06/03/10 08:40 AM 06/03/10 08:40 AM |
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32
Panama City, Florida Matthew Whitehead 
newbie
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newbie
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 32
Panama City, Florida | Thanks Pete. Yea, I wish there was too. And I wish there was college cat sailing.  Still don't know who he is. lol
F16 Viper - USA 211
| | | Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: Matthew Whitehead]
#212581
06/04/10 07:23 AM 06/04/10 07:23 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa Steve_Kwiksilver
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa | Interesting..
Pete Pollard posted a link to an interview with Macca, in which he says the following :
"CS - You also race on M20s, are (with the F20) boats to compare in performance?
Are you crewing the F20 at the Texel Round?
Andrew: The M20 is really a different boat to the Nacra, the costs to build a M20 like the Nacra (jib, curved foils) are more than 40k EURO!!
And now the top M20’s are sporting 3.55m wide beams with no dolphin striker!
In performace the M20 should be faster but in reality its not a huge amount and certainly not 15k Euro quicker! I love sailing the M20, it’s a fantastic boat and a technical wonder, but its jus not a realistic option for 95% of people".
I find this quite an eye-opener, he says that the 15K Euro additional expense doesn`t make the M20 much faster than the Nacra F20, yet he feels quite strongly that the ultimate F16 slayer (that has not been built) will be MUCH faster than the current down-to weight boats. While I don`t disagree in theory with him, I find his "dual citizenship" on the subject quite interesting..
I also find that he feels that such a boat would not be "a realistic option for 95% of people", yet he feels that 'the ultimate F16' will make all others in the class obsolete.
By that logic the M20 will make the Nacra F20 obsolete, which Macca seems to not be too concerned about, whereas he should be, being a Nacra employee/representative, rather than being overly concerned with a class in which his employer is not involved.
Am I missing something here ?
Another thing I find very interesting is that he continually denied any connections with any manufacturer not too long ago, yet this interview brings out some other news - that he has been involved with Nacra in one way or another since 2007.
I guess honesty is not part of the code of conduct for professional sailors, if it doesn`t help them sell their sponsors products. | | | Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: Steve_Kwiksilver]
#212582
06/04/10 07:48 AM 06/04/10 07:48 AM |
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa Steve_Kwiksilver
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 612
Cape Town, South Africa | Also interesting to read Martin Fischer`s opinion on the weight of the F18s (He designed the Capricorn and the Wildcat), in context of his choice for the next Olympic catamaran : "I think 18 ft with a beam of 2.5 m would be a good choice. Transport is much easier than with a wider boat and such a boat would be significantly cheaper than a 20-ft boat. I would also like to see the weight come down a bit, but not to extreme levels. I reckon a weight of around 140 kg would be a good compromise between performance and cost." http://catsailingnews.blogspot.com/2010/05/cs-interview-martin-fischer.htmlSeems he disagrees with Macca on the weight issue, if he believes 140kg would be a good weight for an 18ft, not a 16ft boat.. but then he is only a designer with more degrees than a bar full of catsailors.. | | | Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: Steve_Kwiksilver]
#212583
06/04/10 07:56 AM 06/04/10 07:56 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525
| "Am I missing something here ?"
Nope. You're spot on.
Pete Pollard
Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: Steve_Kwiksilver]
#212600
06/04/10 10:43 AM 06/04/10 10:43 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe |
The basic idea is pretty simple really.
Create as much chaos and mayhem as possible, turning potential new class members / F16 sailors away. Slow our growth and hope enough of the mud sticks as to eventually see us buckle at the knees.
Of course we have been playing that game for over 8 years now and we still keep growing.
As I said before I have no idea why they think they can be successful at it.
Wouter
Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
| | | Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: Steve_Kwiksilver]
#212663
06/05/10 04:03 AM 06/05/10 04:03 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia macca
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia | Interesting..
Pete Pollard posted a link to an interview with Macca, in which he says the following :
"CS - You also race on M20s, are (with the F20) boats to compare in performance?
Are you crewing the F20 at the Texel Round?
Andrew: The M20 is really a different boat to the Nacra, the costs to build a M20 like the Nacra (jib, curved foils) are more than 40k EURO!!
And now the top M20’s are sporting 3.55m wide beams with no dolphin striker!
In performace the M20 should be faster but in reality its not a huge amount and certainly not 15k Euro quicker! I love sailing the M20, it’s a fantastic boat and a technical wonder, but its jus not a realistic option for 95% of people".
I find this quite an eye-opener, he says that the 15K Euro additional expense doesn`t make the M20 much faster than the Nacra F20, yet he feels quite strongly that the ultimate F16 slayer (that has not been built) will be MUCH faster than the current down-to weight boats. While I don`t disagree in theory with him, I find his "dual citizenship" on the subject quite interesting..
I also find that he feels that such a boat would not be "a realistic option for 95% of people", yet he feels that 'the ultimate F16' will make all others in the class obsolete.
By that logic the M20 will make the Nacra F20 obsolete, which Macca seems to not be too concerned about, whereas he should be, being a Nacra employee/representative, rather than being overly concerned with a class in which his employer is not involved.
Am I missing something here ?
Another thing I find very interesting is that he continually denied any connections with any manufacturer not too long ago, yet this interview brings out some other news - that he has been involved with Nacra in one way or another since 2007.
I guess honesty is not part of the code of conduct for professional sailors, if it doesn`t help them sell their sponsors products. Steve, its pretty simple: The Nacra F20 makes the M20 obsolete, because its cost effective and one design. The M20 owners have always been outside the group when it comes to creating a class. When have you seen more than 3 M20s with the same spec at a regatta? The Nacra F20 had a bigger fleet at its first event and it would have been bigger if the containers were faster. So the F16 group have to decide if they are a bunch of boat fiddlers like the M20 guys (i love that stuff too) or if you want a class that races? (on the water, not the interweb..) | | | Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: macca]
#212664
06/05/10 04:20 AM 06/05/10 04:20 AM |
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz. Dazz
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 586
Hobart, Tasmania, Oz. | Macca its pretty simple really Nacra + one design = monopoly ergo ripped off when it comes to spare parts and updates.
e.g 11.000 USD for a nacra I20 carbon mast.
the smart money says history will repeat itself yet again.
C2 AUS 222 by Goodall design
"Darph Bobo"
| | | Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: Dazz]
#212679
06/05/10 07:05 AM 06/05/10 07:05 AM |
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida. Timbo
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,049
Sebring, Florida. | I agree with Dazz on this, I don't know who at Nacra is the "problem" but when I had an I20 some of us wanted to get an owner's class going, but Nacra wouldn't allow us any input when it came to the rules of the class. Their attitude was, "Here's the boat, here's the new changes to the boat, now, you can buy them from us, or you can -not- race in "our" class..." (I am refering specifically to when they added the self tacking jib kit and the 'new' tramps several years ago) We the owners wanted to vote on what new changes should be allowed, and not allowed, but Nacra would have none of it. You played (and paid) by their SMOD rules, or you didn't race with them.
Blade F16
#777
| | | Re: Is it time to kick Macca into touch.
[Re: Timbo]
#212804
06/06/10 12:07 PM 06/06/10 12:07 PM |
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 53
Arkansas, USA Arsailor
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 53
Arkansas, USA | Well at least they were more open about than they used to be- ess pretending to "poll" and take a vote from all the owners of the "class" before making any changes. Only problem was- every change the factory wanted was always approved and no one seemed to be able to find any of this elusive owners who had gotten polled and had voted "for" the changes! As I mentioned in another post- that is their (and Hobie's) business model- SMOD classes controlled by the manufacturer- either openly or covertly.
Kirt
Kirt
Taipan 4.9 USA 159, Flyer USA 185
Will sail for food...
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