****-up of the equipment selection.

The F20 Carbon is a one design, one manufacturer boat that pretty much limits changes to where you put shock cords... So the development costs are simply not an issue there. and the retail price is around 32k USD complete and ready to race Ex tax (and no Olympic teams pay tax in my experience)

Also, who the hell wants to see Tigers racing when you can have a cool boat like the F20???

To the IOC, it is just as much about the dream, vision and accessibility and future growth of the platform and participants to the public. In the past, difficulty with this concept has been a major sticking point.

<****-up of the equipment selection.

Great boat, would love to have one, but as an Olympic MH, I fear that it is not broadly visible enough, nor cheap enough, in the discipline to be viable and sustain the IOC EC's 'Olympic Dream' thing they find so important as an overarching principle. BTW, I think the ISAF needs to work on understanding this concept, too.

Honestly there is no good answer for equipment. I personally would hate to see a formula class become the next Olympic class.

I wonder if the Women's teams would mess up the F16 class to bad if they chose a Viper for the Women's boat.

The Men's boat is tough. Man I'd hate to see one of the F18 designs picked. That would throw a wrench in the F18 class for sure.

I think the Carbon 20 is the future but it's probably got a lot more refinement to go through before it goes mainstream. Also Nacra would have to work really hard to get the boat in multiple countries and apply for ISAF status quickly.

I think any F18 design would be a poor choice and really mess up the F18 class. If an F18 is picked, that design would become the defacto standard F18 and all other F18's would slowly disappear.

I think we have to go with a womens and a mens boat. I don't think a mixed team boat is a good solution. Open is fine but probably would not find any women in the Olympics with an Open boat.

Is there a minimum crew wieght for the new Nacra F20? With the lifting boards I would think crew weight would become much more important because the boat would foil sooner with less weight.

Mike,

IOC is pretty clear on what it wants to see, and that is a Mixed gender boat. So men's and women's equipment is probably non-viable. Keeping this in mind is helpful to moving the discussion forward.

I think it should be run just like our Alter Cup. Put it out for bid by any of the big SMOD's, personally I would think any of the F18 platforms would work for a mixed crew. Rotate the boats throughout the regatta, maybe have each country have it's own custom flag colored spinnaker which stays with the team, but otherwise, the sails and hulls stay together and are rotated. When it's all over, you sell the boats.

I don't know the economics, as far as what that would cost a manufacurer to provide XX amount of new boats, but I would think once the announcement was made, of exactly which boat it will be, they would see lots of new boat sales to many prospective Olympic teams who would want to get on one and practice.

But when it comes to the regatta, they must use only the brand new boats and sails provided for the Olympic regatta, and then rotate them after every race, or after every day, or something like that, but that will take a lot of the development cost out of the picture and keep the focus on the sailors.

I agree, it is tough on a formula fleet if one design becomes the Olympic boat... makes you wonder if the Olympics is worth it...

That said, my half thought out idea for dealing with an F18 as an Olympic boat is similar to Timbo's with taking the Alter cup model.

Basically say "F18 is the Olympic class Multi". For three years leading up to the Olympics, don't pick any specific model. One year before the Olympics have a competition from the manufacturers, select one to be the Olympic Boat. The manufacturer then HAS to lock the design down at that point, and supply new boats at the Olympics for each team (and brand new identical sails / foils / etc, exactly what the laser class does).

Advantages, no picked boat for most of the cycle, lets all the manufacturers develop their boats / models, top teams with funding will buy what they want / can, lost of used good boats on the market. Yes, could drive cost up for olympic teams, but does not need to, as the F18 fleet is solid enough you don't HAVE to have the top boat to win.

For the qualifying year, everyone is on the same "olympic" boat, no need for an arms race in equipment, truly comes down to the sailors. Yes, the chosen boat (company) has an advantage, but for all the hundreds of sailors who aren't going to the olympics, all the olympic teams will be selling off their older boats and we can all just keep sailing whatever boat we like.

After the Olympics, go through the same cycle as before, allowing other manufacturers a chance to get the Olympic bid again.

I know, lots of problems, but if we have to have an Olympic Multi Hull that is mixed, the F18 makes the most sense as a design. So we have to come up with solutions to make sure that doesn't kill one of the best fleets (IMO) going at the moment. So some variation of a bidding process that both selects a specific boat for the olympics without killing off all the other designs at the same time needs to be found. I think my idea is a good starting point. How a company would bid, the exact "open" time versus "just one boat time" should coincide with Olympic qualifying times, etc etc.

Just my 3 cents

Sounds good except they just told us they want to pick a boat for the next 10 years. No changing equipment. Your idea is counter to their requirement.

So once again some burecrats put requirements down that screw up what could be a good outcome. But then again look at the Laser class and how much they pay for a little shell and some sails. I don't want that for our cats.

What do they do with the 49'rs? Are they all SMOD? Maybe they could pick the Tiger, lock it in for 10 years, as is, no developments, and leave the F18 calss alone to continue on it's merry way.

I could see where some Olympic hopefuls might want both a Tiger, and a new Wildcat for F18 racing, or say an Infusion for F18 and a Tiger for Olym. practice, but really, if you know how to sail any F18, it's not much of a learning curve to go to/from the Tiger, right? The Tigers are still pretty quick and as long as everyone is on the same type boat, provided by a SMOD, it should take a lot of the "development cost" out of the equation.

replace the lasers with some one-design A-cat style. Then you could have mens and women's divisions and a lot more action...

Designed right, a singlehander uni should cost about the same as a laser, and with mens/womens divisions, the weight wouldn't be too much of an issue...

Too bad the lasers are pretty much stuck in the Olympics forever...

go look at the laser forums, that boat is having major issues, Laser Performance, the company that makes them (was Vanguard, was Laser, etc etc) is rumoured to be on the brink....No one seems to be able to get sails, etc etc. Laser is not necessarily the exact model to follow.

I agree with Timbo, what does the 49er do? I was under the impression they are all exactly the same boats... more then one manufacturer.

I go back to my initial question... will being in the Olympics be good for multihulls... the F18 fleet seems to be doing something not many other boats can claim right now, be a growing fleet!

redexton

I disagree... I think the IOC wants men's only and women's only sports and is very clear that they are focused on the elite level of performance. They do not want compromises.

They also want photogenic and exciting action.

Mixed events are NOT the right way forward. They are a political compromise and mix a social/polticial policy into the elite performance game. (Name one top mixed doubles tennis team.... versus name a top men's or women's tennis player...
The country club sports, Golf, Tennis, Sailing Swimming can only work when they are Open or M/F... Setting a sport up as Mixed is a craven compromise on the Olympic ideal of excellence )

ISAF floated the mixed events in order to keep as much of the vested interests happy. (Male - female opportunity and the good old boy network)

Catamarans...get back in the games... Not as open.. but as mixed... 470's don't get totally screwed... they become mixed... (not open). ISAF makes the best case possible but they throw elite performance out the window and they make lousy compromises. They preserve slots for the major factions of sailing Finns and STars still have a remote shot at staying in the games.

I would not buy this ISAF compromise in the slow walk to being eliminated. ... our sailing championships are OPEN... (Can you imagine if the F18 worlds were forced to be mixed!)
We should stay with OPEN for the olympics... The only compromise would be to accept Men's.

The winning move is to demand a men's (or open) high performance multihull. The women should get a women's High performance class.... probably a skiff like the 29ner X

My guess is that the IOC will not be impressed with this plan and they flush sailing.

I urge you to read for yourself,Event and Equipment Decisions for the 2016 Olympic Sailing Competition
Option to Make Provisional Decisions, Subject to Confirmation or Amendment in May 2011

"A submission from the Executive Committee based on the recommendation of the Olympic Commission"

ISAF 097-10

supporting that a mixed gender multihull event for 2016:

2-person Mixed Multi-hull Event
• The Commission supports the inclusion of multi-hull as Olympic Equipment as a Mixed Event.

<****-up of the equipment selection.

Yes, I did read the report, I don't think you are interpreting this properly.

I agree that an ISAF commission reports to ISAF excutive committee that ISAF include a mixed multihull in the second stage of voting on events.

My point is that THIS IS NOT what the IOC has been on record as asking ISAF for. IOC wants:
10 events.
M/F balance
Gender specific events.. not open or mixed.
Exciting and ATHLETIC and visually exciting so that costs are covered.
Greater participation by the entire world of nations.

ISAF ignored or poo poo'd the IOC the last time. The list of requirements has not changed. Since the huge bulk of ISAF money comes from the IOC,...ISAF damn well better listen this time... or bye bye.

This proposal is not good for multihulls and probably won't appease the IOC.

I can't even tag some secret cabal at ISAF... The last time, the women's ISAF committee VOTED to give up their 5th event ... voted to give up the women's skiff.... just to make sure they got their match racing event.....plus lasers, boards and 470's.

The Olympic committee report is an honest effort to manage the ISAF chaos of the past ...

BUT.... the final result Mixed Catamaran is not good for the sport of Multihulls.... We don't have ANY events that are billed as MIXED... Hell... when the USA sent a Mixed team to the ISAF worlds on F18's... they sent HER HOME.... (classic Gary Bodie/ISAF screw up)

I agree with Maritime's fundamental question.
What is the compelling reason that Multihulls should take this offer to be in the Olympics?...

There is a reason that no established class wants to be run by ISAF.... They don't want to give up their world championships to ISAF... They don't want to have to politic in 7 dimensional chess with ISAF old goats.... the class BS is plenty thank you.

With the America's Cup now on catamarans... We should re-think this long term strategy of getting back into the Olympics and consider all of our options.

I think America's Cup buzz will be year long and much much more known then once every 4 years of Olympic Sailing.... I would rather tag into this structure then the ISAF Olympics.

What do you find appealing about a mixed multihull event? I just don't see it?

I spend too much time with Laser sailors, usually Laser Radial sailors... much better looking than the full rig sailors!

Having crappy quality in the laser is not related to development costs, its simply a build issue.

Imagine if they created a rule that allowed you build your own Laser hulls, mast sections and sails.... then you have real development costs!

I don't have a position on this. I do have a desire for a MH event in the Olympics. With that, one hopes/presumes that ISAF Olympic Cmte has some competent interaction with the IOC EC as the basis for offering up this proposal. If that is true, getting a foot in the door with the cat is better than IOC canning the sailing events altogether, which I think is a very real possibility.

I do not understand. F18 & A-Cats are established ISAF classes. What classes are you referring to?