| |  Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: mikekrantz]
#221766
10/16/10 04:51 PM 10/16/10 04:51 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan PTP 
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan | looks like quite an awesome boat. I want one. replacement board has to be at least 800$ though. that would suck.
Last edited by PTP; 10/16/10 04:51 PM.
| | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: ThunderMuffin]
#221774
10/16/10 07:26 PM 10/16/10 07:26 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan PTP
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan | Replacement board I heard was $1300 are you friggin kidding? I was thinking 1k, but wanted to give them the benefit of doubt.
Last edited by PTP; 10/16/10 07:27 PM.
| | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: F-18 5150]
#221779
10/17/10 12:32 AM 10/17/10 12:32 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia macca
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia | I said:- it's comparable to an F18 board in price/size ratio
The F18 board is smaller and hence cheaper. The F20 boards are doing a lot more than a normal daggerboard, so don't underestimate the complexity of their job!
Last edited by macca; 10/17/10 12:33 AM.
| | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: macca]
#221786
10/17/10 02:41 AM 10/17/10 02:41 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe Wouter
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 9,582
North-West Europe |
I said:- it's comparable to an F18 board in price/size ratio
The F18 board is smaller and hence cheaper. The F20 boards are doing a lot more than a normal daggerboard, so don't underestimate the complexity of their job!
Remember this when Macca makes another (broad) statement in the future guys ! With him there is always a catch ! Wouter
Wouter Hijink
Formula 16 NED 243 (one-off; homebuild)
The Netherlands
| | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: macca]
#221837
10/18/10 05:22 AM 10/18/10 05:22 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893 waynemarlow
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
| Wayne, again you simply just don't understand how stuff is built. Macca you come straight back with the above statment, you know full well that I know more than most about this sort of thing and yet you still put it in writing. This is typical, time you put a bit of thought into things before putting it out on the net. A curved spar is no more costly nor time consuming to make in mould than a straight spar. May I also remind you that a curved structure is always stronger in one direction than a straight structure which is inherantly weak in both directions, I think the Romans proved that a good few years ago. As I said earlier you are all smoke and mirrors. | | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: macca]
#221845
10/18/10 06:54 AM 10/18/10 06:54 AM |
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893 waynemarlow
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 893
| Macca like yourself, compared to some on this forum I know very little, what I do know is that a dagger board is simply built in a process which is no different whether it is curved or not.
Yes you are correct, there will be additional loads requiring additional layers of strengthening fibres, but those fibres will cost little in the comparison to the materials over all costs. I'm talking 10's of dollars rather than 100's.
The highest cost of these type of products is the R & D but over a volume product then most of these costs can be absorbed into quite small numbers per item produced.
Its time we took the ohhhh factor out of curved boards, they have been around a very long time ( the very early Farriers had them way back in the 80's ) and got on with the job of learning how to sail with them as one thing for certain, the marketing boys and girls have them in their sights as the next holy grail and will push them hard in the next few years, what ever their worth.
As I have said before, I will reserve judgement on their worth until classes such as the A class, where the light weight of the platform should enhance this type of structures useage, have firmly come on side.
| | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: macca]
#221846
10/18/10 06:58 AM 10/18/10 06:58 AM |
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA Acat230
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 395
LA | Macca,
I'll put a break in the exchange between you and Wayne. In the test video, it looks like it's a bit too easy to get a "wheelie" with the boat which while cool to watch, does not seem fast in a straight line. Our experience with the curved boards in the A-Class is to fine tune to get just enough lift to keep the bows up but not much more. Some of the A-Cats are using trunks that allow adjustment of the daggerboard fore and aft rake for different conditions.
It looks like you are always sailing with the windward board at least half up both upwind and downwind. Towards the end of the video, there is a shot of the boat sailing upwind on port tack with the leeward board up about 4-6 inches. Do you think the boards may have too much lift potential (like they experienced with the first iteration for the M-20)? Just curious if there might be more fine tuning.
There is still a lot to be learned about curved daggerboards for sure.
Bob Hodges
A-Class USA 230
Last edited by Acat230; 10/18/10 06:59 AM.
| | | Re: See the F20c in person
[Re: waynemarlow]
#221848
10/18/10 07:05 AM 10/18/10 07:05 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia macca
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,021
Australia | Macca like yourself, compared to some on this forum I know very little, what I do know is that a dagger board is simply built in a process which is no different whether it is curved or not.
Yes you are correct, there will be additional loads requiring additional layers of strengthening fibres, but those fibres will cost little in the comparison to the materials over all costs. I'm talking 10's of dollars rather than 100's.
The highest cost of these type of products is the R & D but over a volume product then most of these costs can be absorbed into quite small numbers per item produced.
Its time we took the ohhhh factor out of curved boards, they have been around a very long time ( the very early Farriers had them way back in the 80's ) and got on with the job of learning how to sail with them as one thing for certain, the marketing boys and girls have them in their sights as the next holy grail and will push them hard in the next few years, what ever their worth.
As I have said before, I will reserve judgement on their worth until classes such as the A class, where the light weight of the platform should enhance this type of structures useage, have firmly come on side.
Wayne, you can think what you like, but its pretty stupid to try and tell me the component cost breakdown of developing and building these things. I know because I have been involved from concept to production. You are making assumptions without any practical application or first hand knowledge. And to use the A class as a measure of the boards viability is a fallacy as I have pointed out in another thread. But if thats the measure you want to use then go ahead... | | |
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