| |  Re: new boat
[Re: Simon C]
#225196
12/10/10 03:26 PM 12/10/10 03:26 PM |
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE 
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia | In the A Class, the Boyer boats are obselete at the top level....... But don't worry, it won't happen in the F16 class. older boats, older designs and older people both become "obsolete" at top level.. Well said lol | | | Re: new boat
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#225199
12/10/10 03:48 PM 12/10/10 03:48 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL Matt M
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addict
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL | In the A Class, the Boyer boats are obselete at the top level....... But don't worry, it won't happen in the F16 class. older boats, older designs and older people both become "obsolete" at top level.. Well said lol There is a difference between obsolete and out of style. Ultimately there is not much difference in top speed between any of the designs within a formula, the difference in many of the newer designs resides in the small refinement that makes some of them easier to drive at that top speed. Take a newly made (read still tight) MKIV made with a new rig, foils and the current layout and you would be hard pressed to see much if any significant performance gap. The top guys in any class buy new regularly. It is a lot more fun to have a new design to play with when you do this than just a shinny version of the old – don’t you think? Anyway you are never going to get rid of the guy who thinks he can just go purchase some more speed cause he can’t make his current equipment win.  | | | Re: new boat
[Re: Matt M]
#225216
12/11/10 05:09 AM 12/11/10 05:09 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia | Take a newly made (read still tight) MKIV made with a new rig, foils and the current layout and you would be hard pressed to see much if any significant performance gap. Sorry Matt but I disagree strongly here as do the majority of A Class sailors. The difference between the MkIV Boyer and the Flyer when it first came out was significant. They are now saying it is a simular leap to the DNA. They became the must have boat because you needed it to compete at the pointy end. Even the difference in the Multi Manufactuer OD class, Tornado the difference between the Reg White and the Marstroms were significant. I have done a fair bit of racing on the Reggies and Marstroms and can confirm they are chalk and cheese. Made me wonder why we tried to pursue for so long on a Reggie kitted out with all Marstom boards, beams, stick. When the level of competition increases, the difference in equiptment becomes quiet noticeable. | | | Re: new boat
[Re: Tornado_ALIVE]
#225281
12/11/10 02:56 PM 12/11/10 02:56 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL Matt M
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 548
MERRITTISLAND, FL | Steven, If you think something is better then it likely is for you. The pointy end you refer to is not very deep though. I appologize in general for the offense but the A class tends to be Lemmings more than most. Look at the rush a year ago to all jump to the ASG3 and look how well that panned out for most. Not that the beam attachment on the DNA would not help the stiffness, but it's no game changer and the reviews I have heard have been somewhat mixed. The top guys are jumping on it and hence it will show well. I have sailed the Tiger and and some of the newer designs like the infusion and Cap. Yes there is big difference in how they feel and sail. But the better sailor is still going to win. In my own shop, there is a huge difference in the Falcon over the Blade on the water. It feels smoother and easier to push, but does that win races or has it obsoleted anything. Its about the sailor. Nobody wants to compete and have any inkling that their equipment may be holding them back. New designs in a formula box rule class will always be the standard. It just follows with so many of the other periferal factors. Boats do not lose races, people kill people or something like that. | | | Re: new boat
[Re: Matt M]
#225291
12/11/10 06:20 PM 12/11/10 06:20 PM |
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan PTP
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,921
Michigan | In my own shop, there is a huge difference in the Falcon over the Blade on the water. It feels smoother and easier to push, but does that win races or has it obsoleted anything. shiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. My blade still has it going on. Amador and I literally traded spots alternately (he came out on top by one race) at the area D quals. It is clearly cause I am a superior sailor given his grade A ride.  seriously though, his boat is a work of art and I would love to get on it. And... my next boat will be a falcon. Just don't have the time to sail it to justify a new boat right now.
Last edited by PTP; 12/11/10 06:21 PM.
| | | Re: new boat
[Re: PTP]
#225329
12/12/10 01:59 PM 12/12/10 01:59 PM |
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,119
Northfield Mn Karl_Brogger
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,119
Northfield Mn | I'm about positive that Matt is doing it differently than AHPC.
I think AHPC is higher with the diamonds, but I don't know that for certain.
I'm boatless.
| | | Re: new boat
[Re: Matt M]
#225455
12/15/10 01:19 AM 12/15/10 01:19 AM |
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia Tornado_ALIVE
Pooh-Bah
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Pooh-Bah
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,669
Melbourne, Australia | Steven, If you think something is better then it likely is for you. The pointy end you refer to is not very deep though. I appologize in general for the offense but the A class tends to be Lemmings more than most. Look at the rush a year ago to all jump to the ASG3 and look how well that panned out for most. Not that the beam attachment on the DNA would not help the stiffness, but it's no game changer and the reviews I have heard have been somewhat mixed. The top guys are jumping on it and hence it will show well. I have sailed the Tiger and and some of the newer designs like the infusion and Cap. Yes there is big difference in how they feel and sail. But the better sailor is still going to win. In my own shop, there is a huge difference in the Falcon over the Blade on the water. It feels smoother and easier to push, but does that win races or has it obsoleted anything. Its about the sailor. Nobody wants to compete and have any inkling that their equipment may be holding them back. New designs in a formula box rule class will always be the standard. It just follows with so many of the other periferal factors. Boats do not lose races, people kill people or something like that. Yes, the A class guys can be a bit like Lemmings, however do you really think there is no significant difference between the MkIV Boyer and the Flyer? As for the DNA, some of the best are convinced. Ashby so much that he got himself one despite his production of ASGs. What does that say. He does not want to be beaten by Brewin on a DNA. From what I have heard over here, the DNA guys are now trapping downwind. The platform has allowed them to do this in reasonable breeze where as it was too dangerous before hand. There will always be those who jump towards the trend manufacture, however every now and then a manufacture will raise the bar a notch and others will have to follow suit or slide out the back door. Many here keep rushing to “the sailor makes the biggest difference” which is true, but if you were investing, why would you put yourself at a disadvantage. Why should you have to sail better than the next guy to equal his performance. New designs have and will come out, they will be quicker and over time. It may happen with gradual change or you may see a leap from one manufacturer. So really, how many people here disagree?
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