| tradewinds wind #227105 01/20/11 10:33 AM 01/20/11 10:33 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp OP
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Posts: 5,525 | Rick: As usual I was lost and carried starboard tack much further upwind than the front runners. (no it didn't occur to me to just follow them) Then when I flopped over to port, I was much further below the mark than I'd expected to be. The top guys seemed to be sailing in the middle of the course.
What did they see that I missed?
Inquiring minds and all that...
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: Dlennard]
#227109 01/20/11 11:22 AM 01/20/11 11:22 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp OP
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Posts: 5,525 | Hmm.. now I'm really lost!
I carried starboard a long way and thought I carried it too far but apparently not because I never got the lift.
In any case, most of the F16s seemed to be tacking to port fairly early and working that side of the course. It worked for the leaders, I just never picked up any clear signal that it was time to tack.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: PTP]
#227113 01/20/11 12:12 PM 01/20/11 12:12 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
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Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | Fundamentals - get to the race area early, sail part of a beat, see what's going on. At the very least, you can watch as others do this and see which side is favored.
Failing that, keep an eye on the competition like Matt suggests. Every once in a long while, leverage pays out; most of the time, though, if you're headed to a private corner and you don't know if it is favored, it probably isn't.
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: Dlennard]
#227114 01/20/11 12:35 PM 01/20/11 12:35 PM |
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,246 Orlando, FL tback
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Posts: 1,246 Orlando, FL | Pete, We found if you stayed on starboard tack all the way to the lay line or even a little past you would be headed at the end of your starboard run but lifted on port when you tacked. The port tack would lift you all the way to the mark with a little header at the end if you tacked early on starboard it seemed like you would sail more of a header on port. I did this and found that I was getting bad air off the fleet of F18 that would continue on Starbord Spi run rounding the offset.
USA 777
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: tback]
#227117 01/20/11 01:05 PM 01/20/11 01:05 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | On day 1 (Friday) the wind was going right all day, you'll recall the RC reset the course after we could one-tack A mark on Stbd. When the wind is going right, you want to get right asap and ride the lift into A mark.
On day 2 it was still going right, just not nearly as much, and occilating more, but you had to decide if you were going to go right early to avoid the F18 spinnaker parade (and resultant bad air) or if you were going to hit the left corner to avoid same.
On day 3 it was light and fluky, you really had to watch out for the holes going upwind, and try to stay in the puffs downwind, hope for the best on the gate laylines.
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: Matt M]
#227120 01/20/11 01:15 PM 01/20/11 01:15 PM |
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Posts: 5,525 | Hmm.. now I'm really lost!
I carried starboard a long way and thought I carried it too far but apparently not because I never got the lift.
In any case, most of the F16s seemed to be tacking to port fairly early and working that side of the course. It worked for the leaders, I just never picked up any clear signal that it was time to tack. When all the leaders take off the other way - How much clearer of a signal do you need? I know. But without picking up on the physical signs i.e. a shift or change in pressure I'd just be following. I'm still trying to figure out what they saw and felt that I missed. Jack- reading and understanding are not the same. If anything I've read too much. I think I'm fixated on some old habit that I still haven't identified. In any case we had the best weather we've had in at least three years and I'd rather sail in the Keys than any place I know. I'm about thirty miles south of Charlotte Harbor and the weather today is absolutely gorgeous. Just in case any of you are thinking about coming down.
Last edited by pgp; 01/20/11 01:26 PM.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: pgp]
#227122 01/20/11 01:35 PM 01/20/11 01:35 PM |
Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... RickWhite 
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Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... | Hi Pete, Two rules for sailing upwind *If oscillating wind, tack on the headers and hold the lifts *If persistent, go the direction the shifts are going.
Almost every day saw persistent shifts going right, and almost entirely the right side was favored. On the Orange course it was even more so, as we were closer to land.
So, another little big of lore: If land on the right and water to the left(as it was), go to the right. When you were at my seminar I think you quit midweek before we got to the tactics and windshifts, as I recall. However, in the magazine I do a tactics column and much of it is about this sort of thing | | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: RickWhite]
#227126 01/20/11 01:57 PM 01/20/11 01:57 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp OP
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Posts: 5,525 | I did leave mid week, but what I got was enjoyable. And I always read your column.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: pgp]
#227137 01/20/11 03:15 PM 01/20/11 03:15 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | Pete, your next move (assuming you've read enough Stuart Walker), in regards to "seeing" what the wind is doing, would be to get some type of compass, a speed puck or tactic, onto your spin pole, and learn how to use it to identify shifts, both persistant and occilating.
We didn't need a compass because we had the land (as well as other boats) as a backdrop to see what was happening, ie. lifted or headed.
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: pgp]
#227140 01/20/11 03:46 PM 01/20/11 03:46 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | My approach was:
A) get a clean start - find favored end. After day 1, throw everything away if needed to prevent Trey from banging out a port tack start because whether or not it was part of my game plan, the F18 fleet (who was watching everything waiting for their start) was going to give me another load of crap about it.
B) wind was supposed to work it's way to the right every day. When in doubt, or especially if you find yourself in trouble getting washed/dirty air, go right.
C) there usually was better pressure but worse angle to the left (starboard beat) and patchy pressure to the right. If you worked the middle, you could usually find a better angle and more consistent pressure. When in doubt, refer to B and plan to shift gears often.
D) If you find yourself completely screwed (capsized, way late to the start, mechanical issue, etc) bang hard left to perform an unlikely "Hail Mary".
Jake Kohl | | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: Jake]
#227142 01/20/11 03:58 PM 01/20/11 03:58 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp OP
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Posts: 5,525 | You guys are making my head hurt!  But thanks for your input. It seems like following is the easiest solution. I'll worry about the rest if I ever catch up.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: Jake]
#227143 01/20/11 04:00 PM 01/20/11 04:00 PM | MN3
Unregistered
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Unregistered | My approach was:
A) get a clean start - find favored end. After day 1, throw everything away if needed to prevent Trey from banging out a port tack start because whether or not it was part of my game plan, the F18 fleet (who was watching everything waiting for their start) was going to give me another load of crap about it.
B) wind was supposed to work it's way to the right every day. When in doubt, or especially if you find yourself in trouble getting washed/dirty air, go right.
C) there usually was better pressure but worse angle to the left (starboard beat) and patchy pressure to the right. If you worked the middle, you could usually find a better angle and more consistent pressure. When in doubt, refer to B and plan to shift gears often.
D) If you find yourself completely screwed (capsized, way late to the start, mechanical issue, etc) bang hard left to perform an unlikely "Hail Mary". What do you do after Mary shows up? | | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: pgp]
#227145 01/20/11 04:17 PM 01/20/11 04:17 PM |
Joined: Oct 2005 Posts: 1,152 tampa, fl ksurfer2
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Posts: 1,152 tampa, fl | You guys are making my head hurt!  But thanks for your input. It seems like following is the easiest solution. I'll worry about the rest if I ever catch up. Stay away from the corners (unless your hoping for Mary to show up). Once you get to a layline, you're out of options.
If your havin girl problems i feel bad for you son I got 99 problems but my beautiful wife ain't one | | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: ]
#227146 01/20/11 04:36 PM 01/20/11 04:36 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California John Williams
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Posts: 3,293 Long Beach, California | What do you do after Mary shows up? Jump for Joy.
John Williams
- The harder you practice, the luckier you get - Gary Player, pro golfer
After watching Lionel Messi play, I realize I need to sail harder.
| | | Re: tradewinds wind
[Re: John Williams]
#227148 01/20/11 05:21 PM 01/20/11 05:21 PM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp OP
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Posts: 5,525 | Thanks again everyone. This is all good stuff.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
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