and the A-cat breaks when you look at it hard enough.

yeah,
They said the same thing about the Tornado in the '70s.
I wonder how they worked out?

Mary and Rick,

Thanks for the input.

This is a great thing, the ability to discuss a project like this, in a Global forum......althought off the topic,..many thanks goes to you both for developing CATSAILOR.COM!....I am sure at some point folks told you the idea wouldn't work,....ha!

OK Rick,...I believe you about the 25 mph. So We will set that as the upper limit. What if you had a smaller spin,..low on the mast ( less fulcrum),..a suggestion of 15 sq. m...( about 50 sq. ft)......in your opinion,..would that be doable,....or still nutso?

Mary,
I smiled at the insert......I will forgo the 1000 mile thingy,...stick with the home beach here!

Thanks again Rick and Mary,

Regards,

Bruce
St. Croix

John,

Thanks for the interest.

If you can, why not lay out your 'pump down' idea on the floor and take a digital pic of it,...post it here or on your site...

...I still want to 'see' it.

regards,

Bruce

ps...make sure you copywrite(patent) it first :-)

MAry,

I draw the line at the kite thing........:-)

Bruce

John,

What are your ideas about sail shape?

How high ( or low) on the mast?

..or other thoughts...


Bruce

In my experience, a good cat with a kite will kill an A Class downwind..... I have proven it time and time again aginst World Champion A class sailors (and I am no world champion)

I would love to see and A Class with a kite.....she'd be a handfull but a hell of a wild ride ......

Picture this, on the wire with your aft foot on the rudder at the pivot point (like the Tornados)trapping about 35 degrees backward and pumping the bow out of the water (Don't forget your chicken/Jesus line)

This rocket ship should near on plane..... don't think anything would catch it in the light to moderate downwinds

Might have to be a future project

Bruce

It's not my idea, dinghy sailors have been using them for years, I have never made one, only seen them on other boats, so I don't have one to show you.

As to size/shape 15 sq m is about 150sq ft, The best kite shape we have used is the one on our 18HT, I am really pleased with it, I would simply scale it down which would give you a hoist height of 7.1 m, which is about 23 ft 4ins.

Stephen,

What you describe is offered by Marstrom as the M-18!

Bruce

I have tried to scan a sketch, but I'm not much good with computers, email me your fax number and I'll fax it to you, maybe you could put it on the forum

Hi Bruce, Just my 2c, as we sail 16ft cats called the Mosquito, essentially a scale-version of a Tornado, in Cape Town, South Africa.
Wind is often 15-18 knots, sometimes 20-25, sometimes 55-60, but then it`s raining as well so we don`t sail.
The boats we sail have 12,5sqm mainsail and a 13sqm jib, seems like the ideal ratio of main to spinn.(ie almost equal)
Problem with more modern cats is that the high-aspect ratio mainsail is great for light to medium wind (up to 18 knots), and then turns the boat into a pitchpole-machine after that. If you sail in high winds I`d reccommend a lower aspect rig, especially in short choppy conditions. A low-aspect ratio spinnaker with a reasonably full shoulder might help lift the bows, but will make close-reaching difficult. Also need to have a balanced rig. Long tall mainsail with short fat spinnaker might not do the trick.
Regarding roller-furling vs. snuffer : Ever had a jam on a roller-furling drum ? You`ll do 100 miles downwind before you can figure out how to get it sorted. Snuffer goes up & comes down in 2 sec. if running smooth, use mylar for the chute, slides really well.(single line tack & halyard.) Go deep for the hoist & retrieve, and you`ll swim less often.
I`ve found the kite holds the bows up in plenty wind, makes it safer than without. Just beware the nosedive in short chop, you sail so much faster than the waves that a wave hitting the back beam slows you enough to pitch the bow under. Bear off more, stay back & sheet IN (break the airflow on the kite depowers it, easing it will power it up !)
Sailing it is a process of cleating mainsail & traveller close to centreline & steering with one hand, the other 5 white knuckles on the spinn. sheet, out on the wire, just steer deeper when overpowered.
That`s all I know, and I still swim with it.

Cheers
Steve

Hello,
I sail an A-Cat and I have installed a Guck snuffer and I am very satisfied with this system. As the A-Cat is very light and the Guck snufferbag, although half the size of the Nacra snuffer, is a little baggy you will lose some upwind capability due to windage. BUT you will win a lot on the downwind leg. Enough so you can keep up with the Inter 20 and the Tornado.
On an A-Cat there is limited use for a spinaker as the spi will lift the boat out of the water with a lot of wind. I will use the spi till about 3 Bft. It is very good to check if you have any heartproblems. I believe that 3 Bft. is about 10 knts. Correct me when I am wrong.
I have a 15 m2 spi, so not a very large spinaker. On my Taipan 4.9 I had an EO snuffer and the much longer snufferbag pushed me away much more than the shorter Guck system.
Regards.
Arjan de Bruin
A-Cat 074

Hey Stephan,


...check out the reply from Arjan........looks like the A cat + spin is starting to happen,.........I checked out your site,......nice.

regards,

Bruce
St Croix
USVI

John,
Checked out your site,....real nice!

Ok,...I do not have a fax,...maybe we can get to use Mary's at CatSailor,....and get her to post,......hey Mary,..you see this???

I am going to e mail you direct,... I believe HArper already has!

regards,

Bruce
USVI

Sorry, we are moving, and our fax number and the machine have already been moved to the new location -- but we are not yet at the new location ourselves. It is very chaotic here right now.

Stephan,

I sailed with a crew from Capetown, Steward was his name,..It was about 10 years ago and I had a H-18 magnum,....well, the winds were getting nasty in one particular race,..and I told him we I was going to back down the rig,...he blurted at me in that S. African english,....."if you touch that bloody mainsheet,..I will break your arm!'.......

....well,..we then fell off a large wave and our combined weight broke the wing clear off,...as we scrambled back on the boat and got things clear I said,...'...I never touched the mainsheet Steward...".....called it a day.

So, I know you all are great in big air.

I had a new main made by Ullman. Charlie Olgletree listened to what I needed and made it 6 inches smaller on the leech,...foot to top......I was in some 20+ winds last month and I never touched the mainsheet,...never added more than enough downhaul to get the wrinkles out.....it was all the power I needed,.....upwind and downwind....at one point downwind, the rig achieved a goal I was trying to hit.....sailing at 170 degrees,...main only,...the telltales reversed for about 30-45 seconds(both hulls down),..I looked around...thinking that the wind shifted....but the boat was rocketing over big seas.....the boat was going windspeed...

.you are correct,...downwind,...the faster you go,..the more stable the rig!.....honestly,...with a 1 person rig,...deep is good and increasing CMG is the only concern.

....thanks for the interesting tips...

regards,

Bruce
USVI

John,

You can fax it to me. I'm emailing you my fax number.

Here's the sketch from John at Stealth Marine.....perty cool (I sketched on the computer).

JAke and John,

Thanks for the specs.

I understand the handle........I can follow the line,........one of you explain the elastic and the rest,.......John,...you mentioned that a part of this would be inside the crossbeam.........which part?

Looks interesting....

Bruce
USVI

Bruce

The elsatic and the blocks take up the slack line.

Have you checked inside your beam yet to see what's in there?

I am away for a couple of days now, but if you want more info you might want to call me to discuss it next week.



John