| Re: Yet another rules question
[Re: pepin]
#231948 05/05/11 05:42 AM 05/05/11 05:42 AM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
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Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | So you may be on starboard getting to the starboard gate but at the 3 length all the boats on port are in front of your transom and as such overlapped: you owe them room. They are overlapped regardless of whether you've entered the zone or not. It's just that when the first boat gets to the zone when it matters. | | | Re: Yet another rules question
[Re: pepin]
#231955 05/05/11 06:38 AM 05/05/11 06:38 AM | MarkMT
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| MarkMT
Unregistered | Well, someone explained to me this last week that at a gate the most important rule is the overlap. My reading is that at a gate the least important rule is the overlap. Rule 18.1 says (emphasis added) "Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone." At a gate, the two boats are not required to round the same mark. So the overlap is not in any way relevant. As far as I can see port-starboard is the only rule in effect. Am I right? | | | Rule 18
[Re: Dan Berger]
#231972 05/05/11 09:23 AM 05/05/11 09:23 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | Rule 18 "Mark Room" was not really central to the original question, but nevertheless seems to be what people want to discuss, so here goes.
What's important when approaching a mark is the relationship between two boats when the one closer to the mark reaches the "zone" (typically 3 of her boat lengths).
If the boats are overlapped, then rule 18.2(b) applies and the outside boat must thereafter give the inside boat "mark-room". If the boat closer to the mark is clear ahead, then rule 18.2(b) applies and the clear astern boat must thereafter give her "mark-room". If the boat closer to the mark is clear astern (an unusual situation), then rule 18.2(a) applies, and the outside boat must give the inside boat "mark-room" when they are overlapped.
Rule 18 applies even at a gate mark that the boats choose not to round. It is still a mark that they have to pass on the same side. Usually however, it doesn't come into play because some other rule (such as 10 or 11) enters in.
The terms "tactical rounding" and "seamanlike rounding" are simplifications - and sometimes oversimplifications. When a boat entitled to mark-room is the give-way boat, then the right-of-way boat need only give the minimum room necessary. When the boat entitled to mark room also has right-of-way, then she may take more room and the give-way boat must keep clear. The only limits are those imposed by other rules, such as 16 "Changing Course", 17 "Proper Course", and 18.4 "Gybing".
I hope that helps, Eric | | | Re: Yet another rules question
[Re: Jake]
#231977 05/05/11 09:38 AM 05/05/11 09:38 AM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
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Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | I remember there was a reason that the marks were to be placed so that the "boat-lengths zones" didn't overlap - it made the rules much clearer. I'm not sure that's the case anymore (I need to read up). The rules were not written to handle overlapping zones. Things could get hairy in the central area with both boats claiming to be inside or ahead at the zone. Therefore, RC should always set gate marks far enough apart to avoid intersecting zones. In 2008, the "Race Management Handbook" used to recommend gates 5-8 boatlengths apart. With a 3 boatlangth zone, that should be extended to 7-10. Unfortunately, wider gates are more difficult to keep square, and can become useless if one mark becomes too favored. If the gate marks are too close (or to far apart), then you should complain to the race committee. Regards, Eric | | | Re: Yet another rules question
[Re: ]
#231995 05/05/11 03:15 PM 05/05/11 03:15 PM |
Joined: Nov 2002 Posts: 606 League City, TX flumpmaster
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Posts: 606 League City, TX | My reading is that at a gate the least important rule is the overlap. Rule 18.1 says (emphasis added) "Rule 18 applies between boats when they are required to leave a mark on the same side and at least one of them is in the zone."
At a gate, the two boats are not required to round the same mark. So the overlap is not in any way relevant. As far as I can see port-starboard is the only rule in effect. Am I right?
No. | | | Re: Yet another rules question
[Re: flumpmaster]
#231996 05/05/11 03:23 PM 05/05/11 03:23 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
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Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA |
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: Yet another rules question
[Re: David Ingram]
#231998 05/05/11 03:52 PM 05/05/11 03:52 PM | MarkMT
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Unregistered | Thanks. Eric clarified this point. | | |
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