Hard wings will NOT be the cheapest option. The cost of the wing vs. sails may be similar given the typical Olympic sail replacement schedule, but transportation of the wing is very expensive compared to a typical rig, storage is a problem, and if you damage it (likely) repair costs are likely higher than soft sails.

I would love to see wings in the Olympics but until it becomes feasible for the boat (A-Cat and Moth for example) its just going to drive the cost higher than that of campaigning a Star.

One of the biggest things the Tornado had going for it were the relatively low campaign costs. The quality of the boat (thanks Marstrom) was high enough that the same boat could be used for a solid 4 years of campaigning. Sails were on a 3-6 month replacement schedule versus an every regatta replacement schedule for the other Olympic classes. These two things kept the Tornado one of, if not the cheapest boat to campaign (yes, it was cheaper than the Laser).

The AC guys have put forward a concept for the Olympics. 20 foot, wing mast - what a machine. Pics on sail-world somewhere.

Logistics of shipping a wing around in containers will be $$$$. Would imagine you would need to take spares also.

I'm not saying that wings would save money, but there are probably only a very few (I would say literally a handful of) people on this forum that know how expensive it is to keep up with sail costs for typical Olympic classes (Tornado excluded).

When I first met Bob Merrick, he told me that sails (especially jibs) were only good for one regatta. This was shortly after he won Silver in AUS.

Being the (relatively) cheap H16 sailor that I am, I was totally unable to process this thought, but apparently it has (at least perceived) merit.

BTW, Mark, please try to keep your rants to 4 paragraphs or fewer, you lose me (quickly) after that...

Mike

We may all be being duped...

ISAF may have been playing this ace-in-the-sleeve, knowing that there is an outstanding possibility that this could happen (and I'd be more than shocked if it wasn't being orchestrated already).

It's win-win for ISAF. They get to appear to have changed, and still get an outstanding shot to retain the keelboats (keep in mind, they will presumably still need to discuss building infrastructure and classes for Paralympics).

Politics at this level is far worse than sausage-making...

Mike

Well for the TV/video... you really like big.... Therefore, I would bet on the One Design Tornado or another 20 footer with the rig scaled back a bit to win out in the end.

You need a step up program... if, the junior step up boat is something like an F16/SL16/Viper/Dragoon then you usually need something bigger for the adults (room in the boat at least)

You can also sell the notion... same platform... different rig for men/women if you get two mulit's down the road.... (begging the question... how do you kill off the Finns. )

The Tornado platform regulations are set... the loop holes have been closed (mast issues) (sail issues) and the equipment proven to hold up for a couple of cycles.

Another strategy...Pick a 16 footer for mixed...spec small sails for juniors... Long term.. Plan on replacing the Finn.. with a Single Handed Multihull with spin for men and keep the 16 footer for women.


Paul Pascoe asked a great question... Why was the Tornado not accepted world wide for the previous 20 years? Expanding on that question... Look at the F18 Worlds... even fewer countries represented.... Even the Hobie 16 has fewer countries represented these days. Make no mistake... the AC cup brought the multi back ... However, the underlying problem of participation in multihulls world wide exists. Now add the need to get women campaigning on two High performance boats (skiffs and mixed multis) ... the challenge is not trivial.

4 years ago.... the request to the rank and file was... show up at worlds and other international events AND expand the sport to the next tier of countries... OK...we lucked out with the AC ... Now we need a strategy to grow the sport world wide...Increase the number of women, grow the sport at the youth level world wide AND MAKE GOOD TV.
Now that is a challenge1

Yes! That would be very cool.

Someone commented in another discussion forum that the host country is allowed to choose one extra competition for the games. Is this true?

Actually, the fixed wing concept would mean the sheeting strength differences between men/women would not be much of a factor...hard wings don't need all the muscle power.

Class selection will likely come down to who has the most tight class rules, construction standards, longevity.
The T with its proven history in these area makes it a strong candidate.

Luiz,

The host country got to choose one class in a couple of Olympics immediately after the Second World War (UK Firefly, AUS Sharpie), but I think that '56 may have been the last time this was the case.

Paul

Paul
That said, do you think that brazil will get the chance of an extra event this time?
There doesn't seem to have been the same sort of reaction to this decision as there was when the Multihull got dropped

Why do we get all so luv eyed with the Tornado, I know its the proven champion but as with all champions at some stage they are going to get beaten and surpassed, heres our chance to introduce a new kid on the block that we can all aspire to over the next 20 years.

An over weight F16 ( unfortunately we cannot deal with the handicap issues of light boats in the short term due to the organising committees not wanting to upset too many other established classes ) with banana boards, has all the street cred ( good looks ), soft handicap to win handicap races, with lots of toys to play with and if we were really brave, a hard wing as without doubt they will be with us more and more in the short term ( forget the transport issue, you still have to move 16ft boats and long masts so just adding a bit of width to the mast is not going to create many more problems, the moths already have worked out the issues on their masts ).

the sharpie was the international "12 square meter" or heavyweight sharpie 230 kg (510 lb). It is NOT the Au "lightweight" sharpie 90 kg (198 lb). Similar hull shape but a hundred kgs different in weight. North Hemisphere types always love their heavy boats. The other is the heavy weigh was clinker while the "need for speed" Addison brothers in Western Australia used ply, as was common in post war Aussie and kiwi boat building.

I the rig is also different with the lightweight having a modern sloop rig and heavyweight using a gaff rig. But who invited the 12 meter sharpie to the Olympics I dont know.

I know overweight is a comfort factor for north hemisphere types but why?
The boat you describe is NOT an F16!!

Heavyweight Sharpie

I'm a huge fan of the F16, but for the Olympics I think an 18-20 foot boat is going to have more TV appeal.

Those of us that were lucky enough to sail a Tornado in anger understand the fuss! It was a truly awesome boat and perfectly suited to the rigours of Olympic level campaigning.

It was big and powerful and was the undisputed king at all the Olympic class events. We need the new boat to be at least as awesome as the Tornado and to achieve that we need to first get the size right and 18ft is the minimum for such a task.

If you want as you say, something "we can all aspire to over the next 20 years" then you need a boat that excites both the sailors and the spectators. It needs to have an edginess to it and should be a challenge to sail well. Remember: the Olympics is for Athletes and as such we should expect the boat to be a challenge to sail. Example the 49er: Not really suited for club sailing but it is great to watch Olympic level teams sailing them to the best of their ability.

A little boat that encourages super light crew weights is not in line with any of the above criteria.

Its really perfect to fit in the Youth boat slot which is poorly served right now, and for sure an area that needs attention as much as the Olympic boat.

If I was looking for an area to promote a 16ft boat then I would be pushing the Youth path with vigour.

Sadly the legacy of the handicap sytems we use such as SCHRS which punishes anything that is light weight, one has to only look at the A Class and F18's, at the moment the A gives time to the F18's similarly the Uni F16's still give time to the F18's.

Any Olympic contender in my opinion should toss the known values out and build from scratch with the recent knowledge gained from the AC and the likes.

They should use a 25' version of the new AC cats