Why? Make the argument!

Lots of the Olympic boats don't hold up for a campaign cycle.

The value over a 4 year cycle versus entry cost debate did not work for the Tornado for 20 years... What sea change makes you think this is important now?

If you are Costa Rica or Bermuda ...(pick a country in a growing part of the world) You have a small program... Who knows if your sailors are going to be able to compete... You need to build a pipeline to create a world class team... you can't count on rich family paying for their kid to pursue the Olympics. Trying to catch lighting in a bottle.... Would you not want lots of affordable boats to maximize your very small pyramid of sailors or a few Cadillac boats.


(I think the value in the boat is important but history seems to say that the value proposition is not determinative.

At the end of the day lots of boats will go to the trials, one will win. Doesn't matter what the community thinks, it is the ISAF that will make that decision (I believe they are the ones the trials... could be wrong).

My guess, Viper if AHPC can show build quality (already proven), and more importantly, ability to ship to all Olympic countries (probably the hardest part, something Hobie would have an easier time showing).

The Laser is an interesting boat to look at not because of price, but how "not high performance" that boat is. The sail is crap, the rig is crap, the hull shape is awful (especially down wind), yet it is an Olympic boat... what lessons can we learn from this? I wasn't around when it was selected, but I think any Cat builder designing a boat to put forth at the trials should study why it was chosen. My thought is that it was a reliable boat that can be mass produced and shipped everywhere, while also being a challenging enough boat that a better sailor does actually win....

The trials are going to be interesting, I can't wait to see what different cat manufacturers are going to put up for it. Until then, all this talk is really just an academic exercise, as who knows what F18s will look like by then, Vipers, etc (okay, we know what a T will look like).

As for mixed, I'm all for it. Guarantees if 20 countries are in the multihull division there will be 20 girls, way more then any "open" class would have.

So... you will just swallow what ever the selection committee serves up? I doubt that...
You may be right about the arrogance of the ISAF selection committee but that would be a tragic.

This game is ALL about buy-in and enrollment for the ISAF selection process.... not just for multihull sailors in the rank and file f but also for the rest of the sailing world in order to support Mixed Multihull saling. No support by the monohull guys will get you isolated and dinged again. (We have tried life as the red headed step child.... 8 years in the wilderness is the result.)

If ISAF and the MNA's ignore the community... they won't get much support down the road. Just ask the US cat sailors if they believe that USSA Olympic supported Tornado mulithull sailing. How about the sailors support for the ISAF junior boat...the infamous SL16! Benign neglect is corrosive...Do we have a viable youth program? Do the US cat sailors support the Pan Am teams then and now? How about ISAF F18 Championships? Surf city correctly decried the balkanization of the US sailing scene.

The ISAF multihull selection committee needs to bring the WORLDS multihull sailors along with regard to the selection criteria and forge a consensus to support the new Olympic Class and use the Olympics to further the popularity of the whole discipline. If they screw it up with the AC on big cats... it will be a greek tragedy! Failure to do so will mean another orphaned Olympic Class. No additional countries will be driven to compete in Mixed Multihull. You won't find the volunteers to set up a training pipeline to encourage and support young sailors. Ultimately, you are set up to be bumped again.

Paul Pascoe gets it... Hopefully the rest of ISAF and the MNA's will as well.

It's cheaper to buy one $40k boat every four years, than five, six or seven $20k boats in that same four year period. AHPC builds a very nice product, but they won't last like a carbon/nomex tornado will. Sailing 200+ days a year takes its toll quickly. I think Robbie said they were going through a mainsheet a week while training for Atlanta, just as an example.

When you use like 2mm dyneema for most of it that's bound to happen.

There is a second hand market for boats!!!!! A 10 year plus old Marstom will be all a team needs to get into the class however they will need to go to Europe to really see if they meet the standard. This costs $$$$$. So if any wanabee in “Costa Rica or Bermuda ...(pick a country in a growing part of the world)” wish to kick start a campaign, then buy a second hand boat. Start off with an old Reggie or Sailcraft, then progress to an older Marstrom, take it to Euroland and see where you stand. Alternatively, pick up an old F18, learn how to sail it. Get a newer generation boat, head to Euroland, see how you stack up, then get a Marstom and head over again.

Once again, the purchase price of the boat looks insignificant. And as mentioned, you can look at the second hand market for a boat.

As Macca has pointed out, with mixed crew sailing, males will generally move to the front of the boat regardless of boat selected. The more I think about it, the more I believe the Tornado is still the boat for the Games.

The class has a strong committee behind it that understands what is required to be an Olympic class. (BS Politics removed it from the Games, not the boat itself)

It is geographically wide spread, more so than other suggested classes with the exception of the H16.

The rules have developed to reduce exploitation at an Olympic level. The code zero came about because ISAF f@#Ked with their class rules for the games throwing out the minimum wind limit for racing in China. Not something the class has had to worry about in the past. Mast issues were addressed with the introduction of the carbon mast, initially built by Marstom but was to be opened up to other manufactures after 4 years so Marstrom could recoupe the development costs it injected.

Non OD sails did drive sail development which may have been a little expensive; however it also increased the ideal crew weight range on the T. The development in cuts also filtered down to other classes as with operating systems i.e. the snuffer and retrieval systems.

Multi manufacture OD rules help produce a better product for less $$$$. Marstrom dominated hull production in the later years, however we were starting to see quality hulls being produced from people like Graham Eeles and Windrush just before the T was pulled from the Games. This competition in manufacturing may have shook the platform prices up a bit.

The big T is a visually spectacular boat to watch. It is HP and whilst it may not be the fastest shape, no other boat cuts a bow wave like the T in full flight.

As important as the choice of boat is (and I think Tornado_ALIVE's comments are well made) I hope just as much effort goes into advancing the technology for capturing on the water video and related content. Ultimately I think this will live and die by the quality of the TV coverage.

All of your points are absolutely valid... BUT.

Andy Rice sums up the ISAF democratic vote... (ie their self interest vote) as such



1) Notice... not a mention of the mixed multihull!

2) The Tornado is historically expensive and inaccessible and NOT popular with the young sailors.. (It is part of an elitist past... sadly) The F18... has the same geographic appeal and is equally inaccessible to the ISAF rank and file. How do you change perceptions in these ISAF Countries?

3) You have to market to the large number of ISAF countries that vote out expensive inaccessible toys.

4) How do you get the kids juiced up about racing Cats forcing their countries to get behind and support multi's in the Olympics.. The Tornado and F18's are not doing it now.

I don't think you have come close to a persuasive argument to the ISAF rank and file yet!

Is there an app for that?

okay, fine. Develop an OD 17x8.5 footer with a composite stick (for reproduceability), three sails (high aspect main, jib, asym), and high-tech foils.

Hull construction materials can include limited amount of higher-tech/cost material to increase durability primarily.

Hull volume is increased to allow for heavier teams. Team minimum weight requirement with limited corrector weight allowed

"Big O" licenses the molds (revenue for them)layup schedules, foils, and sailplan to builders in various regions. This will be set for each olympic cycle.

Boat is laid out like an F18, so teams can transition easily between the two.

Race course will be W/L (gate) with 5knot minimum and 25knot (sustained) max

Olympic games use builder supplied boats (2 from each builder) and teams rotate boats.

Now were talking! I like it!

I would also change the qualification process. As Tornado Alive noted... you have to get to Europe... and that is real money.

Finding a way to make that less of a requirement would help the poorer countries make a go of it. The ISAF circuit makes it very very hard to expand the pool. We need some structural changes in the ISAF game to lower the costs... These are the cost that really drives Olympic sailing to the elitist stage.

would piggy-backing on the Pan Am Games (props to Dub on your competing there!) allow for a reduction in expenses for those hopefuls on this side of the pond?

Props to Mr. Thomas as well, skippers need love too. Now back to scheduled programming.

Sounds like a class that already exists...maybe a foot shorter.

Right, but it would allay the fears that an Olympic 18 footer would "destroy" the F18 fleet...

No worries. I was alluding to F16. It is surprissing how well the newer hulls carry 2-up weight. Once you mentioned a min crew weight to dispell fears of anerexic males or little people, it should fit the requirements.

I think that an 18ft (possibly F18 even) will not have so much of a negative effect on the F18 class as a whole. The F18 class is big enough now to exist with one of the designs being Olympic.

If they chose and F16 on the other hand.... that would spell the end for the class as it is right now. That would be a shame, as I said many times I believe the F16 class has the potential to be a big international class.

I still don't see why we're discussing ONE Olympic catamaran.

It seems to me sailing is as different from the other disciplines as Winter is from Summer. As such, sailing deserves its own set of games, imo.

Totally agree with you Pete and that is why there was some considerable discussion when the IMC mooted a World Games regatta to make up for the loss of the T from the Olympics and there was huge support.
Perhaps if the multi hadn't have got back in, that support would have made it a reality? On that note, why can't the IMC try and get it anyway?