How many Kites did you have to pay for before that one was the one you picked?

I know from my PHRF racing days that the skippers I'd race for would usually have to buy 3 spins before he found one that he liked - and then bought two more in different sizes for different wind strengths.

Whose to say that someone with deep pockets couldn't go out and go buy about 5 spinnakers and pick the best one for the event?

Thats not the class I signed up for.

The square rigger sailors probably thought that for a little while too. It's progress. The sailplan is 15 years old with no development.If you don't buy new sails anyway, what difference does it make.You can't be competitive with old rags. New sails comes with being competitive, no matter who cuts them. It's part of the racing expense. You can DEFINITELY find cheaper sails than the factory EP, that perform better. So you actually save money.
The Factory attempt at a new kite is either top secret or an abysmal failure. If you would like the N-20 to be relegated to the "also ran" lake crusier with 6 people on it, then you are getting your wish.people are buying the used boats because they are relatively cheap compared to the options not because of a 1D philosophy or class control.
I've raced/owned the N-20 since 2000 when it was pushed on us for the Worrell.I think it deserves more of an effort, if it means being a one man class so be it. It's a distance racer anyway.




Seriously ,Good luck with that.

Does anybody have an idea how many regattas had Class starts for the N-20?
1 Spring Fever
2
3

It's all ready been done in the Nacra 20 class. The consistency is far enough off that, that was a standard practice among the well sponsored teams in the Worrell and to a lesser extent the Tybee.

Tad, A rule is a rule. If you're willing to draw it in the sand for other people you better make sure you are 100% legit.
The only thing that would change at all about the sails is who makes them.Sizes would all be the same. Not that there has ever been a factory sail measurement or consistency for the N-20.

Again Todd - which rule am I breaking? I can't find one that I'm in absolute violation of.

Why would I show my hand now. I'll wait until you protest me.

So I can go ahead and rectify my transgressions.

It says a lot about your character that you would be willing to hold that against someone who is honestly trying to do the right thing by conforming to a set of rules that he's agreed to participate under.

Says alot about your character that you are willing to hold back an entire class from development.Self serving at best.

I'm not holding anyone back. You can go ahead and buy all the fancy sails you want - just don't expect me to be ok with it if you want to race in an OD Nacra 20 class.

Go race on handicap all you want.

Open sails is not the class rule I signed up for when I purchased the boat. It was the same for you. Now you want to change the rules of the game.

I've been watching this issue for some time now with quite a keen interest. In the not too distant future a new main and spinnaker is to be purchased.

Where to go, what to buy?

Easy answers (?) NACRA or EP directly...
I have an aftermarket spinnaker from Whirlwind which is fantastically built and I use for non racing fun times.

N20 637

If you want new class sails then go through your local dealer.

Just one. I told them what I wanted (same size as original), gave them 50%, then they made it. Maybe I just got lucky and the first attempt was a good one. I would like to think Jay is at the top of his game when it comes to sailmaking/designing. The kite is definately a step up.

Jay and Pease cut a nice sail and two nicer and more helpful people you will not meet. It doesn't hurt that they are two very active beachcat sailors. I'm a fan!

So,

All this aftermarket chat is great about the sails. One question to answer is how are they to be measured?

I thought there was already a time frame for new sails; what's taking so long? Where is the new set of class rules stating the sail area and how to get there?

On the ratings, maybe the F18 needs to come down since it is always evolving and becoming "faster". The N20 has been the benchmark boat for quite some time in the rating food chain.

There seems to be a lot of blah-blah-blah on a dead class; all IMO. It would be easy to spell out a max head width, max luff, max leech, max foot = max sailarea and have at it on the mainsail! Just spell out the max sailarea for the chute(ISAF measure). The jib will take care of itself with the small triangle. Easy button here from an outside sailor.

I look forward to more debate(entertainment) and hope to see some interesting things on the water!

BC

I agree with your point Bob, and I'd also take a step further and say that NONE of the formula/box rule boats have stood still and ALL of them need to be reviewed (F16, A-cat and yes Brett the M20!), oh heck while we're at it let's give the RC30 a good hard look, I don't think I've every seen that rig in the same configuration twice. Why can the RC30 carry multiple headsails w/o penality where every other beachcat takes a hit for doing so? Because you're on the DPN committee can you field that question for us? Or better yet can you define the intent of "All sails". Is that defined as main/jib/1 headsail/ or as many sails that you want to put on the boat at any given time?

And since you are on the DPN committee what's the review process and how does it get started?

Bet you're wishing you never clicked the "post" button now aint ya? :-)

Oh that's easy!... you need data from a buoys race lasting 45 to an hour against other rated boats (F18's Hobie 16's Tornado) The old secondary yardsticks ... Oh each boat with the same configuration (aka class legal) ... 3 to 5 of each would be a great data set. Measure the wind speed on the course over the race and average it.

99 bottles of beer on the wall.... take one down.. pass it around.... 98 bottles of beer on the wall. When you get to trashed... oh say 15 bottles into this.... you will have a provisional number. 85 more and you are good to go.

Just PHRF/estimate the numbers as you want... It's easier on the liver.

**** about measurement systems.

Peace out.

<********! Well, until Mary finds out then it's party over.

AH... I have figured out the problem Todd is having with you..

You don't know how to READ!.... (don't worry, that's correctable... stupid would be unfortunate)

I wrote.. PHRF..... not measurement... PHRF....
you say you understand PHRF... you referenced the evils of PHRF before.

You do know how PHRF works right...? A regional board evaluates race data, Sailor skill, boat prep, team work on the boat, number of sails, size of sails, etc .... and they estimate one rating number for TOD racing usually.

Carry on with killing your N20 class as quickly as you can..

I'm getting some popcorn now.