| Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Keith]
#234250 07/01/11 07:42 AM 07/01/11 07:42 AM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 267 Ocean Springs, MS Capt_Cardiac
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267 Ocean Springs, MS | But wait... you joined the SMOD to save money didn't you! you can't go and buy another boat so you can have newer developed sails that's flies in the face of all that is sacred in SMOD!!! That would cost you more money!!!! That money argument is nonsense. At some point you have to get new sails to remain competitive. Why not buy better sails that cost less? Keep the 20 and get new sails from the sailmaker of your choice. If I've learned anything about sail development it ain't the sails that make the boat it's the sailor. If you love your boat, stick with it and have a great time. Get the sails you want and enjoy the new development ride on the Nacra 20 platform.
If the sails really do make that much of a difference then you would expect to start moving up in the fleet. Nothing, I said nothing, changes peoples minds like success.
Schurr Sails in Pensacola, FL have several new designs for the Nacra 20. I've seen them first hand and will be competing against them this weekend. I'll let you know what I think and whether i'll be buying my new set from Schurr.
Capt Cardiac Ocean Springs Yacht Club Sailor Nacra20 - Flight of Ideas #5 | | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Capt_Cardiac]
#234257 07/01/11 10:54 AM 07/01/11 10:54 AM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 1,304 Gulf Coast relocated from Cali... TeamChums OP
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OP
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,304 Gulf Coast relocated from Cali... | The spin I got from Glaser was about $1350 (I'm pretty sure). If we do Tybee next year, I'll get a Nacra class one. I guess my point is that the N20 class in the GT300 is in support of different sail makers as long as they are the same sq footage. It's a great proving ground for new sails.
Lee
Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Capt_Cardiac]
#234259 07/01/11 11:18 AM 07/01/11 11:18 AM |
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 887 Crofton, MD Chris9
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 887 Crofton, MD | Adjust for N20 - move forward
Maybe we could get out local sailmaker to figure out what the numbers should be...
B.4. SAILS SAIL PLAN The sail plan comprises a mainsail, a jib and a spinnaker. The sails shall be made of any polyester material for main and jib, and of nylon and polyester woven only for spinnakers, and shall fit in a bag of normal dimensions. B.4.1. MAINSAIL B.4.1.1. The mainsail shall have a surface area of maximum 17.00m² including the mast. B.4.1.2. No part of the sail shall be above the upper mast band. B.4.1.3. The aft head point of the mainsail shall not be above the head point. B.4.1.4. Maximum Upper width at upper leech point 1500 mm from head point : 1290 mm B.4.1.5. Maximum Top width : 1000 mm B.4.1.4 & B.4.1.5: Sails with larger measurements can be measured and used until 01.01.2009. B.4.2. JIB It shall be possible to roll the jib around the stay. From 01.03.07, the roller reefer unit is optional. Any Long Distance race manager or organizer wanting the use of such device for safety reasons shall mention it in the Notice of Race, otherwise sailors may sail with the roller reefer as an optional aid. The leech shall not be convex. The head shall be not more than 50mm wide. There shall not be battens on the foot. The ISAF Equipment Rules of Sailing shall apply to jibs. 4.2.1. Two sail areas of jib are available as a function of the crew weight : 4.2.1.1. Crew categories of 115 to 150 kg : Maximum jib sail area : 3.45m² 4.2.1.2. Crew categories of more than 150 kg and crews opting for the over 140 kg changing of category (see B.3.3) : Maximum Jib sail area : 4.15m² 4.2.2. For safety purpose, it is mandatory for the crew to be able, when racing, and in normal position on the trampoline, to furl the jib around the stay. The crew may be asked to demonstrate such ability at any time. Formula 18 Class Rules – updated 1st July 2007 6 4.2.3. The maximum diameter of the furled jib shall be 100 mm. 4.2.4. The maximum number of jib battens will be 4. The battens and/or the batten pockets length shall not exceed a distance of 250 mm normal from the leech. See diagram. From 1st March 2007, fully battened jibs are allowed. Those may have a maximum of three battens which shall have no moving parts and be made of glass fibre, with a maximum width of 25 mm. 4.2.5. The jib tack shall not be fixed below the highest point of the bridle wire. 4.2.6. Self tacking jib devices are allowed. B.4.3. SPINNAKER Two sail areas of spinnakers are permitted as a function of crew weight. Crews of 115 kg to 150 kg : Maximum surface area for the spinnaker : 19.00m². Crews of more than 150 kg and crews over 140 kg changing of category (see B.3.3) : Maximum surface area for the spinnaker : 21.00m². Battens and stiffening devices, except textile leech lines, are not permitted. Spinnaker retrieving systems, which may be attached to the bowsprit, are allowed, subject they comply with the general measurement F18 rules. Regarding the legality of carbon snuffer arrangements, a carbon ring is used on some North American snuffers, the spinnaker pole being aluminium. Such existing snuffers has been accepted under a grandfathering arrangement until 1 January 2007. Carbon is not permitted in the construction of new snuffers. B.4.4. LIMITED NUMBER OF SAILS One single suit of sails can be used for the whole duration of an event. B.5. MARKING All sails measured after 01/07/2007 shall have the following details clearly marked close to the tack point of the sail: The year of manufacture The loft of manufacture The cloth type used A unique serial number B.5.1. MARKING OF SAILS All the sails measured shall be marked with a colour sticker affixed near the clew on the starboard side. The sails corresponding to different weight categories of crew weight shall be identified by the following colour code : Jib Mainsail Spinnaker 3.45m² Green 17.00m² Pink 19.00m² Green Formula 18 Class Rules – updated 1st July 2007 7 4.15m² Pink 17.00m² Pink 21.00m² Pink The maximum permitted area shall be marked on the colour stickers. The actual measured area shall be marked on the Measurement Certificate. The area and the dimensions of the spinnaker (SL1, SL2, SMG, SF) shall be written in an indelible manner near the starboard tack.
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Capt_Cardiac]
#234303 07/03/11 03:40 PM 07/03/11 03:40 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD Keith
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,459 Annapolis,MD | But wait... you joined the SMOD to save money didn't you! you can't go and buy another boat so you can have newer developed sails that's flies in the face of all that is sacred in SMOD!!! That would cost you more money!!!! That money argument is nonsense. At some point you have to get new sails to remain competitive. Why not buy better sails that cost less? Keep the 20 and get new sails from the sailmaker of your choice. If I've learned anything about sail development it ain't the sails that make the boat it's the sailor. If you love your boat, stick with it and have a great time. Get the sails you want and enjoy the new development ride on the Nacra 20 platform.
If the sails really do make that much of a difference then you would expect to start moving up in the fleet. Nothing, I said nothing, changes peoples minds like success.
Schurr Sails in Pensacola, FL have several new designs for the Nacra 20. I've seen them first hand and will be competing against them this weekend. I'll let you know what I think and whether i'll be buying my new set from Schurr.
Actually, we bought the boat to sail Tybee. I don't really care about the SMOD. I think perfectly good classes have been killed by the SMOD religion. Any money argument I'll make is that I'm not going to buy outdated sails this year if the new ones are coming out next year. That money argument is not nonsense, unless you have more money than sense. I've felt all along that having multiple manufacturers in the sail game would improve things. Go back through any posts I've had on the subject. If I get to do Tybee next year (and if the N-20 is still in) I'll be looking for a new legal set, whatever that is, and if it's SMOD so be it. It's time for new rags, good sailor or no. I'm merely inquiring about the status of the new factory sails and if anybody had any skinny on them. Anybody like the spin? As for loving the boat - the 20 is great, and it's paid for (which makes it greater). I don't love it so much that I would never consider another boat... | | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Keith]
#234307 07/04/11 07:27 AM 07/04/11 07:27 AM |
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 267 Ocean Springs, MS Capt_Cardiac
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 267 Ocean Springs, MS | Admittedly that was just a smart a$$ response aimed at the, "or is it time to go F-18" comment. personally i won't go F18 since i'm in the bonafide big boy club. we have all been holding on to the idea that NACRA is going to support development of the sails for the N20. i don't see it happening. I think we are on our own. I personally think an F20 box class is the way to go. You can buy a set of F18 sails for a Hobie Tiger that aren't from Hobie. You can sail them at every event accept the Hobie sponsored races. I don't have a problem with that. I'll bring out the Nacra sails for performance events.
Capt Cardiac Ocean Springs Yacht Club Sailor Nacra20 - Flight of Ideas #5 | | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Capt_Cardiac]
#234309 07/04/11 07:37 AM 07/04/11 07:37 AM |
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 5,525 pgp
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,525 | Box rule works fine for us. It isn't perfect, but what is? So far we aren't having the problems you guys are, knock wood.
Pete Pollard Blade 702
'When you have a lot of things to do, it's best to get your nap out of the way first.
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Capt_Cardiac]
#234322 07/04/11 12:27 PM 07/04/11 12:27 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD Mark Schneider
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,116 Annapolis, MD | I don't have a problem with that. I'll bring out the Nacra sails for performance events. Ah.... now the devil in the details. Somebody has to designate... This is a Performance N20 event...and this other event is Open Nacra 20. From Keith's perspective.... the only one that matters is the possible Tybee 500. Since it was cancelled this year... Chuck will only care about which rule gets the most boats.
crac.sailregattas.com
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#234340 07/04/11 05:28 PM 07/04/11 05:28 PM |
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 72 BadLatitude1337
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 72 | So, you guys are ok with letting Charlie race in the N20 class with a totally different rig? Just cause it's from PC? Different cut sails including a spin that hoists to a different point on the mast but not a spin that is the same size and hoists to the SAME point as factory? OK with letting us race our class legal rig?? Technological development is what moves racing forward. Perhaps Chums would like to stay in the 70's and race Hobie 14s. The only way to continue NACRA 20 development is to open the class and use a box rule like the F18s, Performance isn't going to continue to support the class. It's time to make our own class rules. Also consider that the aluminum rig costs 4K and the carbon rig costs 10K, humm.
Open20NA 1337 FOR THE WIN!!!
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Capt_Cardiac]
#234342 07/04/11 05:46 PM 07/04/11 05:46 PM |
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 72 BadLatitude1337
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 72 | Let's get together as soon as possible to work on the box rules. We'll bring our boat over soon for measurements. We can start with our sails, Schurr sails, and the EP sails and see what we come up with.
Open20NA 1337 FOR THE WIN!!!
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: BadLatitude1337]
#234354 07/04/11 10:31 PM 07/04/11 10:31 PM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | So, you guys are ok with letting Charlie race in the N20 class with a totally different rig? Just cause it's from PC? Different cut sails including a spin that hoists to a different point on the mast but not a spin that is the same size and hoists to the SAME point as factory? OK with letting us race our class legal rig?? Technological development is what moves racing forward. Perhaps Chums would like to stay in the 70's and race Hobie 14s. The only way to continue NACRA 20 development is to open the class and use a box rule like the F18s, Performance isn't going to continue to support the class. It's time to make our own class rules. Also consider that the aluminum rig costs 4K and the carbon rig costs 10K, humm. I think you've missed Chum's point. How about read the whole thread before you spout off. He's ( as am I) for advancement,without our collective noses as well as walletts up the factory's a$$. Your pissin' up the wrong rope.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#234365 07/05/11 09:04 AM 07/05/11 09:04 AM |
Joined: Jul 2001 Posts: 2,844 42.904444 N; 88.008586 W Todd_Sails
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,844 42.904444 N; 88.008586 W | Now, I just might get one of the several N20's in my area after all! How about a F20 event, similiar to the F18's, platform (N6.0, H20, Myst?, etc.) all have to fit a set of box rules. Ya know, The link is here in the 20 ft forum about this, started by my freind Mike N., in TX. Here is the link to the thread in the F20 forum: http://www.catsailor.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=206153#Post206153PS- I happened to be in Toronto, during the Can F18's last year. Misha won it on a local Tiger, with local crew(I think), (he did bring a set of his own sails). Did he win b/c of the sials? They had Major wind, to almost no wind, and he still won it. Was it his sails? I didn't think so.
F-18 Infusion #626- SOLD it!
'Long Live the Legend of Chris Kyle'
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: Todd_Sails]
#234369 07/05/11 09:50 AM 07/05/11 09:50 AM |
Joined: Dec 2001 Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL waterbug_wpb
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,590 Naples, FL | my N20 went to Canada. Is it available? Sails #279 and #501 wouldn't mind getting that workhorse back and some crew to sail it..
Jay
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: pitchpoledave]
#234379 07/05/11 10:19 AM 07/05/11 10:19 AM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA David Ingram
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,906 Clermont, FL, USA | Mischa's crew was Kevin Stittle, 4th in China on the Tornado, 2nd at the Tornado worlds..so his crew was very very good. And he brought his own sails and daggers. It was the F'in daggers... I KNEW IT!
David Ingram F18 USA 242 http://www.solarwind.solar"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda "Excuses are the tools of the weak and incompetent" - Two sista's I overheard in the hall "You don't have to be a brain surgeon to be a complete idiot, but it helps"
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: David Ingram]
#234380 07/05/11 10:26 AM 07/05/11 10:26 AM |
Joined: Sep 2009 Posts: 72 BadLatitude1337
journeyman
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journeyman
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 72 | I did not miss the point at all!!! He said (So, you guys are ok with letting Charlie race in the N20 class with a totally different rig? Just cause it's from PC? Different cut sails including a spin that hoists to a different point on the mast but not a spin that is the same size and hoists to the SAME point as factory? ) I’m all for opening that class and letting anyone cut the sails. But I will also keep buying PC parts until there is a new class rule. So trying say I can or can’t sail with a class legal rig is just ludicrous!!!! [u][/u]
Last edited by BadLatitude1337; 07/05/11 10:50 AM.
Open20NA 1337 FOR THE WIN!!!
| | | Re: Nacra 20 owners please chime in here
[Re: BadLatitude1337]
#234388 07/05/11 11:00 AM 07/05/11 11:00 AM |
Joined: Sep 2002 Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. Team_Cat_Fever
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 3,224 Roanoke Island ,N.C. | I did not miss the point at all!!! He said (So, you guys are ok with letting Charlie race in the N20 class with a totally different rig? Just cause it's from PC? Different cut sails including a spin that hoists to a different point on the mast but not a spin that is the same size and hoists to the SAME point as factory? ) I’m all for opening that class and letting anyone cut the sails. But I will also keep buying PC parts until there is a new class rule. So trying say I can or can’t sail with a class legal rig is just ludicrous!!!! I think he was just pointing out the differences that are already present in the class. I believe you have the only N-20 like yours(alu mast ,perf.sails) correct me if I'm wrong, so unfortunately that gets used as an example of the inconsistencies in the supposed SMOD N-20 class.I don't think he's trying to keep you from racing it. As I see it you're completely 100% legit. I just think all the variations are BS for a SMOD class.It either is or it isn't. I also think pointing out the aluminum mast as an advancement, when it was brought forth so the factory could save a buck and wouldn't have to source,ship, and stock the carbon extrusion is misinformation.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
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