Pensacola to Miami Checkpoints, East point, Cedar key, Sarasota, Naples, Key West, Key Largo, Miami...
I Dont know how close to 1000 miles that is, if its short by much you could always throw a leg into and out of Tampa Bay somewhere, and it'd be a great race. The tactical options in terms of routing on the west coast of Fla. add a totally different challenge versus the drag race up the east coat. Cut the corner? Stay near the beach, offshore, inshore? etc..Plus the logistics are simpler given how big the community of beach cat sailors in the start and finish areas is, and in Florida generally. It may lack some of the extreme conditions that you tend to get around hatteras, but getting to key west and then to Miami is big water and unpredictable.
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Frank Moore]
#240699 12/01/1101:34 PM12/01/1101:34 PM
the Marco - Key West leg sounds like a potential problem area to me. These are coastal beachcats we're talking about, and a straight shot to Key West involves sailing beyond sight of land. I don't think this would bode well if something broke 1/2 way to KW.
Maybe put a check-point in Cape Sabel and another in Key West, you'd have the option of running to the east or west side of the keys
As for "manning" the checkpoints, would a lock-box with a log-book suffice? or Ping your GPS?
Jay
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: waterbug_wpb]
#240703 12/01/1102:23 PM12/01/1102:23 PM
the Marco - Key West leg sounds like a potential problem area to me. These are coastal beachcats we're talking about, and a straight shot to Key West involves sailing beyond sight of land. I don't think this would bode well if something broke 1/2 way to KW.
Maybe put a check-point in Cape Sabel and another in Key West, you'd have the option of running to the east or west side of the keys
As for "manning" the checkpoints, would a lock-box with a log-book suffice? or Ping your GPS?
Are you volunteering to hang out at Cape Sable? It's a lonely place.
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: jkkartz1]
#240706 12/01/1102:41 PM12/01/1102:41 PM
to be honest, I've never seen Cape Sabel in daylight. We have bumped the keel once or twice at night in that general vicinity as a yute on our family boat back in the 70's
Oh, isn't that area west of the Keys the Navy's exercise area for the fighter jets out of that base down there? It would suck to get nuked while trying to make Key West check point (would probably leave a mark, too)
Jay
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#240709 12/01/1102:46 PM12/01/1102:46 PM
No, Cape Sable is the very tip of the Florida peninsula. It's a bad place to hang really. Nice beaches, a tidal creek and Lake Ingraham. Good place to camp.
Shark River is just north and a popular anchorage.
Yes I would do it in a heartbeat... but take a lesson from the worell and the tybee AND watertribe races. www.watertribe.com
IMO, don't waste time arguing about OD crap. I'm with mike, run what you brung FOR REAL. As long as your making the competitors manage their own race, make a token prize for everyone that dares to enter from FBI (first bich in) to DFL (dead f-ing last). Run your 4ksb, snark, kayak with sail, puddle duck, Aquacat, H-16, R33, F-20 who cares I mean really. If you want endurance racers interest or to spark new interest, you'll have to leave the OD table and talk to some wall flowers.
Also, FYI the watertribe is already running great races in florida and NC like the North Carolina Challenge and the Everglades Challenge. They are TRUE run what you brung and it is awesome. EC 2011 had 90 entrants!!!! If I never race OD again that would be ok.
Yes I would do it in a heartbeat... but take a lesson from the worell and the tybee AND watertribe races. www.watertribe.com
IMO, don't waste time arguing about OD crap. I'm with mike, run what you brung FOR REAL. As long as your making the competitors manage their own race, make a token prize for everyone that dares to enter from FBI (first bich in) to DFL (dead f-ing last). Run your 4ksb, snark, kayak with sail, puddle duck, Aquacat, H-16, R33, F-20 who cares I mean really. If you want endurance racers interest or to spark new interest, you'll have to leave the OD table and talk to some wall flowers.
Also, FYI the watertribe is already running great races in florida and NC like the North Carolina Challenge and the Everglades Challenge. They are TRUE run what you brung and it is awesome. EC 2011 had 90 entrants!!!! If I never race OD again that would be ok.
And to that point, I don't think anyone does this with an eye on the prize money. Most of us are realistic enough to admit that we stand very little chance of earning it.
Part of me wants to see OD but I have to admit it would be more fun doing it with more people OD or not. Even in the watertribe events, everyone finds their own challenge within the boat limits and classes will be born within the group. Alan has a point.
Jake Kohl
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: bvining]
#240714 12/01/1106:05 PM12/01/1106:05 PM
Originally Posted By: bviningI think Mike wants to pull a Randy.
And how'd that work out... not too good.
Didnt Randy win the Worrell one year with a custom built cat with racks? That was my reference.
I believe he ate it in the surf on the second wave after the start, but I could be wrong.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Alan'osauras]
#240715 12/01/1106:23 PM12/01/1106:23 PM
Yes I would do it in a heartbeat... but take a lesson from the worell and the tybee AND watertribe races. www.watertribe.com
IMO, don't waste time arguing about OD crap. I'm with mike, run what you brung FOR REAL. As long as your making the competitors manage their own race, make a token prize for everyone that dares to enter from FBI (first bich in) to DFL (dead f-ing last). Run your 4ksb, snark, kayak with sail, puddle duck, Aquacat, H-16, R33, F-20 who cares I mean really. If you want endurance racers interest or to spark new interest, you'll have to leave the OD table and talk to some wall flowers.
Also, FYI the watertribe is already running great races in florida and NC like the North Carolina Challenge and the Everglades Challenge. They are TRUE run what you brung and it is awesome. EC 2011 had 90 entrants!!!! If I never race OD again that would be ok.
It's not my decision to make, but I have raced against a few of the "open" class Worrell boats a long time ago and the monstrosities built were not only costly but dangerous. I think an open class would certainly be a spectacle but would not drive up participation. The watertribe races ,as awesome as they are, strike me as 1/2 race 1/2 obstacle course. The one offs built for that would be far different from what would be built for this. I'd venture to guess the attached pic would be on the tame side of what would get built.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#240717 12/01/1106:56 PM12/01/1106:56 PM
Costly and dangerous sounds like every other interesting thing one can do with ones life nowadays. I for one cannot afford a OD boat that can do what I want. But I can build one. Driving a car is dangerous too. It is lack of experience that is dangerous. Hence the reason for waivers and self managed races. I think open class by definition drives up participation. If you don't want home built boats in the race that's cool too. I just think it would be a cooler race that more people would enter. Run what you brung doesn't mean that OD cant enter or have a "class" its just ALL inclusive. A race like this will be as much about the boat as the sailors. Breaking down in a million dollar carbon eggshell is not fast and neither is staying awake for 11 days straight. Those watertribe races have a 50% finish rate for a reason and it's not because half of the boats break down. -Alan
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Alan'osauras]
#240718 12/01/1107:15 PM12/01/1107:15 PM
Ok, looks like we have ground crew that is chomping at the bit to want to do it with us. If it happens, Team Chums will be at the start for sure. OD, Open or what the f' ever it is, it's on with us.
Lee
Keyboard sailors are always faster in all conditions.
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#240719 12/01/1107:38 PM12/01/1107:38 PM
Costly and dangerous sounds like every other interesting thing one can do with ones life nowadays. I for one cannot afford a OD boat that can do what I want. But I can build one. Driving a car is dangerous too. It is lack of experience that is dangerous. Hence the reason for waivers and self managed races. I think open class by definition drives up participation. If you don't want home built boats in the race that's cool too. I just think it would be a cooler race that more people would enter. Run what you brung doesn't mean that OD cant enter or have a "class" its just ALL inclusive. A race like this will be as much about the boat as the sailors. Breaking down in a million dollar carbon eggshell is not fast and neither is staying awake for 11 days straight. Those watertribe races have a 50% finish rate for a reason and it's not because half of the boats break down. -Alan
Alan, If you can't afford a used N-20 or F-18 how can you build something faster for less. If you can, you're missing out on a great business opportunity. My idea of dangerous is 18-20 ft. boat with 10' beams and 8-10' aluminum frame racks on each side. With all the righting moment they will pitchpole and with a 15' drop to the mast it's just a matter of how bad you're gonna be hurt, not if.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#240723 12/01/1108:46 PM12/01/1108:46 PM
I guess cost of a OD boat in this case includes assumed cost of regattas which is the point of owning one. Anyway, its beside the point. You may be right about a great business opportunity but this is not a goal of mine. I didn't claim faster for less. Only "what i wanted". It might be faster, don't know yet.
Racks can be dangerous...So what? I agree a boat like the one you describe could be a nightmare but for this theoretical long race, where the goal is to finish. Pitch-pole causing racks don't make a lot of sense since pitch-poling and getting hurt is also not fast. All races have to have some rules. A simple box rule for multi's in a open style race where anything goes could weed out the crazies right? F18's and N20's pitchpole all the time given the right conditions. Is the only argument against an open format one of safety or liability?
Maybe compare to economics (as much as I hate economics) Run what you brung being akin to a free market. Innovation, interest, unique solutions, tinkering. All things sailors can't get enough of.
But like I said, have an OD "class" sure for those who like to race man to man. In the end, 30 or 40 boats with an open class too is better than 10 OD's right? Were talking about interest here.
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#240724 12/01/1109:02 PM12/01/1109:02 PM
As I said before it's not up to me. As far as having a box rule, I'm not against that either, I sail an A cat and love the development. I've also got some plans and a bunch of parts to steroid up a N-20. I do know for a fact if you open everything up the mainstay racers on "normal" boats will say screw it. It's a race for a cash prize. If it was my race and my decision to make ,I'd have an unlimited class (run what you brung rule/ box rule) that was not eligible for the prize or a portion of it based on how many there were( assuming entry fees make up the pot), and an OD class that has to meet a minimum rating( like Steeplechase, so it's timely and not a 3 week race) that would compete for the prize or the other portion.
Quote
Is the only argument against an open format one of safety or liability?
That's not my argument at all. My argument is you drive away more competitors than you get.As an example, Many of the stock F-18 guys (and there's alot of them) are not going to race straight up against a F20c or M-20 tricked out with racks ,custom sails and other goodies. The track record shows they should ala GT-300 (Sorry Mike ) but alot would not even attempt it. For me it would be about numbers. Historically OD distance races have had larger numbers than open development races. It's just numbers. I'd love to see the machines that would come out of such a race (open) but unless I was on one I wouldn't race an OD boat against one either.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Alan'osauras]
#240728 12/01/1109:27 PM12/01/1109:27 PM
p.s. I put alot of thought in to that last post that I didn't need to write.
"I said, now, I said ,pay attention boy!"
The cure for anything is salt water - sweat, tears, or the sea Isak Dinesen If a man is to be obsessed by something.... I suppose a boat is as good as anything... perhaps a bit better than most. E. B. White
Re: East Coast endurance race, would you do it?
[Re: Team_Cat_Fever]
#240729 12/01/1109:35 PM12/01/1109:35 PM
Costly and dangerous sounds like every other interesting thing one can do with ones life nowadays. I for one cannot afford a OD boat that can do what I want. But I can build one. Driving a car is dangerous too. It is lack of experience that is dangerous. Hence the reason for waivers and self managed races. I think open class by definition drives up participation. If you don't want home built boats in the race that's cool too. I just think it would be a cooler race that more people would enter. Run what you brung doesn't mean that OD cant enter or have a "class" its just ALL inclusive. A race like this will be as much about the boat as the sailors. Breaking down in a million dollar carbon eggshell is not fast and neither is staying awake for 11 days straight. Those watertribe races have a 50% finish rate for a reason and it's not because half of the boats break down. -Alan
Alan, If you can't afford a used N-20 or F-18 how can you build something faster for less. If you can, you're missing out on a great business opportunity. My idea of dangerous is 18-20 ft. boat with 10' beams and 8-10' aluminum frame racks on each side. With all the righting moment they will pitchpole and with a 15' drop to the mast it's just a matter of how bad you're gonna be hurt, not if.
) but alot would not even attempt it. For me it would be about numbers. Historically OD distance races have had larger numbers than open development races. It's just numbers. I'd love to see the machines that would come out of such a race (open) but unless I was on one I wouldn't race an OD boat against one either.![[Linked Image]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3QnXlXz_aCs/TlUn615rBzI/AAAAAAAAJUs/0Ha_5xYeeLo/s1600/IMGP0752.JPG)