>You guys really need to put the hard-on you have for US Sailing back in your pants. Get over it already.<
>"WE DESERVE TO BE RESPECTED! RESPECT US!"<

I have lost RESPECT for monohull sailors after:
1. Chris Draper's ACWS antics at the start of race... in Plymouth causing Artemis collision with GCR.
2. Ben Ainslie's gross misconduct ATTACKING photographer on camera boat
at Perth 2011 ISAF Sailing World Championship http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/sa...hotographer/story-e6frg1wu-1226219055690
and http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/in...a9217cc0cc&showtopic=129411&st=0

What do you think his insurance company is going to do? They don't just pay off because you admit you are responsible...
What do you think they say when you don't admit fault?
They will investigate... but ... It's not an official race under the RRS. There is no protest committee report. There is no jury finding. You have some video with known problems of perspective in video data. They use the Col Regs to evaluate liability.

From the Supercat's company POV, they could look at the video and say the N20 came up and did not keep a proper lookout... so they tell the N20...you are 40% at fault (liable)... we pay 60% of the repair. You can then go to your insurance company and see if they will fight it out on your behalf ... So, you file a claim on your own insurance... But if they agree with the supercat insurance company... $$$ x 40% minus your deductible is the check we cut you.

The whole thing sucks... liability gets decided by the insurance companies...

The RRS requires responsibility on the part of the sailors... This is enforced by peer pressure and your integrity... When you don't have agreement on facts... It won't be pretty.

Best we can do is a set of rules and a fair process... this is why we use the RRS and WHY US Sailing matters to you... If you don't agree with the lynch mob/protest committee at your beach... you can appeal.

Too bad these options are not available for this fubar

Sorry for the double post (now deleted). Was having browser issues.

BRAVO
Is it really worth it. I think not. Who cares, we've done our own thing forever.

mark,
When was the last time you filed for an insurance claim.
I had to go through one to get my boat repaired this Jan. and all it took was the at fault skipper's call to his insurance company and a quote from a repair shop for my boat repairs. Done.

I can guarantee if he doesn't make it right, I will personally see that he is not allowed to race any distance races I see him entered into.

Oh, come on Todd! First you bitch about being tossed out of the Olympics and now you reject the baggage that comes with being in the 5-ring circus? You can't have your cake and eat it, too.

In speaking with Todd R. (and yeah, I said "speaking" - like on the phone), it's my understanding that he did not have insurance for this.

I was not going to bring it up but him renigging really has me chapped. He actually thought the "Mark" was considered an obstruction and he had rights.

I don't recall any of this hoop jumping BS when the Ts were in the Olympics and honestly don't see why it's so important to the "Multihull community" It'll be important to one man and one woman. The bitching I have is more about US Sailing stabbing us in the back and sorry but I probably won't "get over it".

End of Hi-jack from me.

As the US Sailing Multihull Council Chair, let me see if I can help…


Easy, go to the US Sailing website and navigate to Membership: http://www1.ussailing.org/membership/SelectMemberType.aspx

If you want to be counted as a Multihull sailor on the Member Partner Program (formerly known as Golden Anchor Program): https://www1.ussailing.org/membership/MPP/Default.aspx?ycid=100729I

Granted, the MPP link is not as easy to find, and is one of the many things we will be improving over the winter. The MHC portion of the US Sailing website has been badly neglected for years. This is OUR fault, not US Sailing, and the staff is pushing us hard to improve the content (we have several multihull sailors working on this as we speak), which can only help us in the big picture.



Again, do a little research, and you will find this (way too much to list here): http://membership.ussailing.org/sailors.htm

If there are additional benefits that you would like to see, send me an email. Jack has been asking me repeatedly for what else the organization can do to improve the value to its members.



This isn’t entirely accurate, but is a commonly held perception. I’ll leave it at that, let’s focus on making the most of the opportunity that we do have (and again, how many people here were directly affected by either decision?).


Unless you choose not to join, US Sailing is not “us and them.” It is a member-driven organization, run primarily by volunteers. Yes, there is a staff, but they are there to serve the members per the bylaws and regulations of the member-based organization. Join and step up to help, and you will see that the doors are wide open, and there is an army of people interested in helping us to be successful.


As for the rules debate; I totally understand that it is possible to run any race, anywhere, using any rules that you want. My question is, why would you? Most people racing at this event are used to racing under RRS, and when boat-on-boat situations arise, will probably expect the other boats to act accordingly.

Moreover, in this case, the event flyer says:

How is this intended to mean that the RRS do not apply? What other racing rules are you invoking?

Other than this little detail, I certainly don’t see any “liability” issues for the (non-) RC stemming from the collision. The collision was caused not by and act or omission of the (non-) RC, but by the actions of the three boats involved. Reaching starts are not unheard of, and the setup of the start line did not cause the collision [if anything, by having the (non-) RC start boat off anchor, additional carnage was avoided]. Furthermore, as I often tell Opti kids, even if I have a really bad day and give you the worst start line in history, it's your job to start properly and not hit anyone.

As an aside, I am also a certified (Regional) Race Officer. I have been doing this since 1997, and since 2007, have been heavily involved with monohull regattas of varying levels, up to and including nationals, NAs, Worlds and US Sailing championships. I have never felt any sort of mistreatment from US Sailing or any other club due to my status as a cat sailor. If anything, most places are ecstatic to have me show up with a solid knowledge of what is going on.

There is nothing to be gained by anyone here if the Tradewinds/Stevens Trophy event fails in any way. I did reach out to Rick, and offered to help. He told me he needed judges, and I gave him some advice on how to find some without having to spend much money. He did not mention a need for an RO, but I would be willing to help if needed, or there is a long list of certified folks in FL that could probably help.

Hope this helps.

Mike

This seems to support what looks like "cross the line at all costs" attitude in the video.

Like I've said already, there's always more to the story.

From the other thread:



I guess now we know (albeit through hearsay reported here) that Wave thought they were ROW, and that is why they didn't retire.

Mike

Oh for gods sake... you can't do this... The RRS don't allow you to discriminate...
Do you really want to run another race under cowboy rules...(there are no rules)?

Do you really plan to live life as chief judge and executioner for all distance racing entries?

If you think you have a case, you have to make it to US Sailing to get him tossed.... . but this race was not run using those rules.
oops!!!

Todd... the reason you have US sailing is to have a choice between... Lynch Mob and Protest Committee, run by a US Sailing trained judge with a backup of an appeal process.
They are ALL VOLUNTEERS and take it SERIOUSLY. Oh... and they expect us to act in good faith and be adults!

When I go to a regatta... I expect the OA to run the race by the book. That means... a qualified judge and pro.
Life is short.... I don't need to race in cowboy events with frontier justice... or as JW puts... justice in the sand!

Precisely. Its gotten all way too serious.

To the point where its not fun anymore.

Everyone is entitled to define "fun" for themselves.

Getting my hull ripped open with no recourse does not meet my definition of fun.

Mike

Of course I can't "Toss" someone out. But I can send an email to the person in charge with a link to the video stating that Wave refused to make amends to Adrenaline after he agreed to.

Can't we move all this to the other thread? Hard to follow two threads.

+1

umm... Labor Day... ... Sheer incompetence by the YC appointing an ignorant PRO setting up a lose lose lose situations on the water..... Should have retired after two races death reaching head on at Chesapeake 20's and Albacores ........ the 4th race took me out.

I made a mistake... I was so flipping mad that I did not follow the process all the way through.... There was no dispute between me and the other skipper and he took liability and responsibility.. (no insurance problems.. that is not the case at steeplechase) BUT... the mistake I made was not completing the game and having the score sheet reflect his RAF and my redress given... And I missed the opportunity to hold the YC accountable for the bozo they put in charge.

The crash results effect everyone's scores and that is the game... so... I screwed the game up a bit.

(I only realized my mistake after getting spoken to by the fleet elders in a big boat class for letting a sailor get away with a foul (he was in contention for silver we were new) .... They were very clear... this fleet does not play the game that way... its not fair to the fleet...Our pass meant that Port took no turns and won. AND... if you get away with it in a 2 knot drifter.... do you try it at 15 knotts when you could kill somebody??... They want bright lines in that fleet... set by the RRS)

How bad can it get...See Jack's comments about Waves barging and playing bumper boats... no fouls called..... he draws a thread to the steeple chase crash... OOPS!