We were told at the MHC council meeting by an MHC member that they were cancelling one of the major championships for lack of interest as well. I have not confirmed the fact.

The general economy is in the toilet, and has been for what, 4 years now? That probably has more to do with the 'lack of interest' in sailboat racing than the way the Championships are run.

It might be 'lack of money' more than lack of interest.

The two cheapest classes are still the most popular, numbers wise, the Hobie 16 for cats and the Laser for mono-dinghys. But I'll bet even they are feeling the pinch this economy has put on everything deemed 'non-essential'.

So they want to put no money in. They want to draw money out of our event. And they want to tell us how to run our event. Makes perfect sense to me.

We had the US Sailing Champion on Champions on our lake here. They used borrowed Flying Scots and bought new sails for all the boats. They invited all the class champions and most didn't come. They have trouble finding a venue to host them. They invite "big names" in sailing and they have a hard time getting them to come. Paul Cayard came to our event and folks were quite excited to have a big name come to that event.

So the way they do the event is about 10 steps below how our multihull event is run. The level of competition is the best of the best at the multihull event. Often all the big names are there.

We run an event that they can only wish to run but they want us to change?

Yes.

edit; Mike, while your point may valid, the fact is we have a clean slate. Better to abandon talk about what was and focus on what can be. I'm surprised there is even debate about the success of the previous finals, but the fact we can't even agree on the term, "success" is an interesting barometer. I'm sure there is more news coming as the current effort comes more into focus.

Far more interesting is where the nacra inter 17R is rated. 104 under texel compared to 102 for F16's and 100 for F18's. Quite a bit faster then under us D-PN

USS owns the rights to Alter Cup. If that's correct it is their event. Plus, they have $1.67 mil in current receipts to budget for how many championships less other expenses which are paid from dues. As a gross amount that's $41/person give or take.

I'm beginning to lean in favor of USS, I just wish it was easier to dig up information.

Agreed in full!

Mark,

I 100% agree without volunteers events don't happen. But do you need paid staffers to make the same events happen? I'm sure this is where you and I will disagree.

I don't know how much experience you've had working with US Sailing and trying to make a regatta happen but when they want to be they can be extremely difficult to work with (yes I'm sure they felt the same about me, I'm not really a go with the flow kind of guy). US Sailing really doesn't bring much to the table $$ wise either. After they get their cut the host club gets about $3K in sponsorship money. As far as needing paid staffers to keep it all going...maybe but I can tell you with a great deal of confidence that there is at least one paid staffer that could be replaced by volunteers. Wouldn't it be nice if the funding for that staff member was funneled directly into the championships.

Because US Sailing doesn't bring a lot of $$ to the table and the paid staffers aren't contributing to the success of the championship (based on my direct experience), is the championship really being served by its association with US Sailing? This idea has already been floated within US Sailing so I know we will lose the right to call it a championship and we will lose the trophy if that path is taken.

If this is going to end up being a BYOB DPN "Championship" then there really is NO value in keeping the championship oops, King of the World Cup with US Sailing. At one time I supported keeping the championship with US Sailing because it was the one thing we could hold up say this is a reason to be involved with US Sailing, but now... I think we are better served by serving ourselves.

Does anyone think the survey will turn up something surprising?

I don't think there is some groundswell of opinion to push this debate in any direction that you can suss out of a survey. If the championship is not held in 2012 or the future, I doubt that there will be much of blip.

IMO, 3/4 of the cat racers simply don't care to sort through the many issues...

US Sailing is going to want ONE mission statement for all of the championships they run..

The MHC council and the one design class leadership should then prepare a couple of proposals and put them up for a vote.

Dave

You need a paid staffer so that the regatta is pretty much at the same level three years from now as the event volunteer staff burnout and turn over.

You also need the US Sailing stamp because this Organizing Authority has credibility through out the country. Some people tried to reform NAMSA and do this job but you can see how well that has worked. There is simply no support for another organization.

Events like the NOODs in my area are run out of AYC...and Sailing World. The paid staff at Sailing World works with the paid staff at the Yacht club to get the very same volunteers out on the water to run the regatta. The price doubles for this regatta compared to the same three day regatta on Labor Day run by the Sailing Assn (CBYRA)

Do you need all of this overhead... (always a hot debate)...Is it valuable to partner with NOOD.... YMMV. The F18's find value in supporting these kind of events.. Could they have the same regatta a week later... certainly.

Negotiating a fair deal for all stake holders is a PIA.. Tis why I applaud all of those who take on this challenge. BUT... the price of the job is not the first order issue.

(Something like JO's has been much less of a problem.)

I doubt USS is overstaffed, at $40/member of gross revenue.

just to show my naievate' with USS, do they sponsor the Alter Cup winner at the Olympics or some other international event?

Or is this Alter Cup the pinnacle, and you're done after that...?

Alter Cup is the top event. It's not related to any other series (Olympics or otherwise) in any way other than having a slot for youth champions and having a slot for a team representing the boat used for the Olympics (there has been a Tornado spot reserved in the past).

When it came to the US Multihull Championship that was absolutely not the case. All the heavy lifting was done by the volunteers and the host.



We could have a very long discussion as to why NAMSA never took off and I'd probably be in agreement with most of your opinions. As for US Sailing as the OA adding credibility to a regatta... yeah, that's debatable.

I have no doubt that is true..
But Consider... how much it would cost in travel, per diem and hotel to pay the travel of a staffer to even attend and work the event! So... can't live with em... can't live without em.

I do not want to be in the position of defending USSA policy on these events, personnel, negotiating skills,competence etc .. I know there are problems and limitations...

When everybody thinks they are getting screwed over ... the solution is clarity in expectations, finances and philosophy.

This is the opportunity to sort that out.... or the volunteers won't be there to run ANY event.

Mike, Perhaps you have not noticed... Multihulls have a similar problem. Would you say that Hobie 16 sailors are beating the door down to race the USSA championships? Yet they are the largest double handed class in the country.
Mulithull sailors do a much better job of supporting interclass championships (USSA Multihull or Area qualifiers then monohull sailors) .... Our tradition of handicap racing, weak as it may be, does get the sailors out on the race course competing occasionally.

The core question is. How valuable or interesting is an Inter Class championship to Multihull Sailors... (or to Dinghy sailors... to Keel boat sailors)

How you run this championship matters but this is not the key issue.

I was wondering how long it would be before NAMSA came up. Maybe it's time is now. The disenchantment with US Sailing is stronger than it has ever been.

Mark when I read your posts (and a couple of other folks) I hear the teacher from Charlie Brown.

If there is no Alter cup then the only reason to join US Failing is some yacht clubs require it. Now if the membership site at US Failing doesn't work like it should then you just get to pay extra late fees or miss events.

As much as I despise racing handicap, Bob's hit the nail on the head here.

Some other observations and comments:

Championship of Champions
I've competed in two, both in doublehanded monohulls (Y-Flyer and Flying Scots). Contrary to what Mike H. said, there's always a waiting list for entry. The one that I attended last year was extremely well organized, albeit a bit pricey ($400 for 3 days of racing, 1 day of practice). They fed us breakfast, lunch and dinner, gave us a bunch of swag and entertained us every night (Tom Ehman was the "surprise rock-star competitor"). Gary Jobson was there one night. Liz Walker was there the whole time. The Dallas Corinthian YC volunteers did the heavy lifting on the event and even hooked me up with a member family for a place to crash so I didn't have to pay for a hotel room. While I thought it was expensive at first, I think it was a good value for the money. I had a great time and met a lot of really nice people outside of the very narrow world of catamaran racing.

Some Perspective
This thread has only had input from 24 people (many of which only made 1 post). That's maybe 1% of the active catamaran racers in North America. Over half of the posters are from the southeast US (NC, SC, GA, FL). 25% are from the "east coast" - defined as VA on northward. Only three are from the west coast. Mike H. and I are the only ones from the Midwest.

Food for thought.