Err... NO! sorry, but the race pack is shown on the H20 website as a 1000 CHF option. So the total price for a race ready Nacra (no tax) is 18250 and that does not include any covers or rear hull stands.

If you really think that pant was never allowed, then how was a wood epoxy boat meant to be surface coated? It is very clear that you have no idea about how to build a boat, but perhaps you could ask someone with knowledge and get back to us all.

Karl,

Ignore the fight, come sail with us and you will be happy you bought the boat!

-Jeff

I just can't believe the executive of the international F18 association is letting this sort of crap go on. Pretty disappointing really.

Surely Olivier et al could be putting a cap over all this and looking after the sailors. At least communicate the reasoning behind these decisions through a press release on their Facebook page and website.

For the race pack you're right it is not included.
So gel coated Nacra MK2 + race pack retailer pricelist = 17.290 euros + 1000 CHF (so 830 euros) = 18.020 euros ex tax. Phantom plain finish = 18.650 euros ex tax. Those are price list.

One more time F18 painted boat exists for year but that doesn't mean they were all allowed. Just refer to the 2002 class rules.

Some refurbish it's been always class legal, very few home made one shot and more recently Mattia, Windrush and Phantom.
Now the rule is clarified and confirmed by ISAF.

Thanks to that clarification existing and already certified boats can have now derogations (as some Shockwave have for corecell).

You should consider F18 isn't only a boat builder community.
You write: "if its more economical for us to use paint then we should be allowed to do so"
Is the core of this wrong attitude.

Andrew, that is pure wishfull thinking and a key point: builders money interest do not rule F18, for the moment.
F18 rule process involved TC (builders giving advices), WC (mostly F18 sailors elected by F18 sailors: making decisions) and ISAF (controling).

So if there is a doubt, what do you think of that (have a problem to answer ?):

There is a very simple way to prevent your today situation.
If you want to make F18 with a "brand new process" or service.
Just ask if the rules allow that before.
TC can answer, or if there is no consensus, WC can make a clarification.
It works ! And in this kind of move, you show respect to F18 community (builders and customers).

Hi Gav,

For the reasoning just read the last TC report it is quite clear: http://tinyurl.com/7u5gmhy

Indeed there is a very simple way to prevent this kind of situation.
If a buider want to make F18 with a "brand new process" or service.
The builder/sail maker ask if the rules allow that before.
TC can answer, or if there is no consensus, WC can make a clarification.
It works ! And this kind of move shows respect to F18 community (builders and sailors)

That's why I propose to complete a certificate of compliance from builders, given with the bill, before F18 certification that transform a 18 feet cats in Formula 18.

What do you think of that cap ?

Shut up Franck

I respond all your questions and remark.
That is a forum purpose.

So why you cannot answer ?

Oh ffs - who cares??? What's wrong with allowing prescribed coating methods - gelcoat + 2k, acrylic, whatever specified paint and let the market decide from there?? Just allow what is readily and economically commercially available. Who cares if one is faster than the other - within 3 years the market will even out and that's what all hulls will be coated with (if there is an actual advantage which I suspect would be minimal all round).

Tiger Mike
(now on a c2 - how does one change their name here anyway???)

Franck, as much as we would all like you to shut up... How about you use your big boy words to answer the very simple question that has been asked several times:-

How did the class expect wood-epoxy boats to be surface coated?

(good luck with the answer)

best regards,

Andrew

You probably want to change your Avatar too http://www.catsailor.com/forums/images/icons/default/smile.gif
I went from a Tiger to a C2 as well - it's awesome isn't it....

I like Macca's question. I wish someone from high up in the F18 executive could give a reasonable answer. Our mate Franck just keeps copying and pasting. I don't think he's answered a specific question yet.

Karl stop being a drama queen! Go sail your boat!

You should know that 10 satisfied people make less noise than one unsatisfied.

I'm so sorry that you THE expert doesn't understand that the response you're waiting for is in the question you don not want to answer.

There is a very simple way to prevent your today situation.
If you want to make F18 with a "brand new process" or service.
Just ask if the rules allow that before.
TC can answer, or if there is no consensus, WC can make a clarification.
It works ! And in this kind of move, you show respect to F18 community

For buiding wood-epoxy boats, the right way would have been to ask for clarification before.

For a complementary answer I quote one comment from an excellent blog, a guy who ask you to grow up, it's not very smooth but the last phrase is so right

"Max Catsailor said...

So for nearly 20 years every F18 sailor and builder has been wrong!?! Grow up Macca, you sound like a cheap lawyer!

If everybody else got the meaning, but you didn't, then surely the class just asks ISAF to correct an error in the text - no big deal. It all just depends on what was intended when the rules were written. What do the class say that the rules are supposed to mean?

After all, if you listen to every idiot who finds a loop hole then why bother with class rules!"

Gav,
I just make the response to Macca (a post before), simply kidding, the answer was in the question he does not want to answer

Franck, You are Max catsailor from martin's site. You took that ID on after you were banned.

Now, the question asked was simple enough, so you could do us the courtesy of answering it rather than more copy and paste crap.

There is no clarification needed for building boats in wood epoxy, it is clearly allowed in the class rules and has been since the very first edition of the rules. My question to you is this:- how is a wood epoxy boat going to be surface coated if paint is not allowed?

I don't expect you to like the answer, but you could at least give it a shot.

So sorry Im' not Max catsailor, believe it or not I do not care, but I think is a smart guy.

Today's martin post was a very funny moment. He should ban all the guys who vote HC16

More seriously I'm so happy to help you in this very technical issue.

Obviously the clarification to ask was not upon wood epoxy. You're right to point this out.
May be ask your grandmother to be sure, I'm not qualified enough.

For me a serious technician (and respectful for F18 class rules and community) would have ask how to finish wood epoxy boat in order to respect the rule.
That would have been very intelligent and positive.

You see the big picture now ?

We can stop now boring people (most of them do not care), it was very funny, thank you Andrew.

Franck, You just cant bring yourself to answer the question can you?

We know you don't like the answer, but the reality is that it proves my (and everyone else in here's) point about painted hulls and the class rules.

Andrew,

again my response you do not want to see:

For me a serious technician (and respectful for F18 class rules and community) would have ask IF18CA how to finish wood epoxy boat in order to respect the rule.
That would have been very intelligent and positive.

Please find below a perfect summary. The last phrase is another answer.


"Max Catsailor said...

So for nearly 20 years every F18 sailor and builder has been wrong!?! Grow up Macca, you sound like a cheap lawyer!

If everybody else got the meaning, but you didn't, then surely the class just asks ISAF to correct an error in the text - no big deal. It all just depends on what was intended when the rules were written. What do the class say that the rules are supposed to mean?

After all, if you listen to every idiot who finds a loop hole then why bother with class rules!"



Two answers are enough for you to understand ?

Franck,

We understand.. You are unable to answer the question without completely shooting all your arguments in the foot.

The cut and paste routine is getting boring now, so how about you run along somewhere else now.

For the love of God.....how long is this going to go on for?!?!?!

Nearly every hands on beach cat sailor knows that you cannot apply gel-coat over epoxy.... Is that the answer because the grandmother in the West Marine store would be lying to me then.

If that is the case, the recent gel-coat clarification makes the rule contradictory. At least before, they were ambiguous relative to "paint".