Does any one here know any one high up in the Melges 20 class? I'm wondering how they got Audi to sponsor them. Anyone have any ideas? It's a brand new class, yet they seem to have landed a 'big fish' with Audi.

Charters are different from borrowed.

Charters are a financial deal between two private parties... you can buy insurance for that from lots of providers.

Borrowed boats are covered under the US Sailing burgee program package (assuming they buy it). Borrowed means borrowed... the owner does not get paid. It's used to borrow somebody's boat for marks. etc... It has been used to borrow cats to lend out... which is a bit of a stretch but seems to fly by the company.

Mark, I don't have an axe to grind - that's the fiction you've bought into, which is insulting to the volunteers who came before you. I don't blame you, however; that's the MO and history repeats.

Perhaps you could read my posts today again after taking a deep breath - I've said a couple of times now that I don't have a problem with our MNA making money off the event. My dues are paid and I've attended every Alter Cup since my term as Chair ended.

The fiction, which you regurgitated here, is that US Sailing doesn't make money off the event. They do. It is a ridiculous point to argue.

I like the daily boat rotation idea, which would be combined with some sort of measuring official who would verify the tuned boats fall within manufacturer spec. So you couldn't go crazy with diamond wire tension and break the mast...

I think NASCAR (to use that earlier reference) allows some tuning of the cars, but there are spec 'envelopes' that must be adhered to...

Help me out here John.

I totally hear what you're saying, US Sailing makes money from Rolex; always has, always will. You and I are OK with that, and hopefully, the relationship continues long into the future.

But, I don't hear Mark saying that US Sailing isn't making money from the event or Rolex.

If he did say that, it would be incorrect (although it's highly doubtful they are breaking even from the regatta fees); but please enlighten me on how that would offend previous volunteers.

I still fail to see how any of this discussion moves us forward as a team.

Mike

Yea but not in the IROC serise I misspeled earlier and that is the race that compairs all drivers from diff classes nascar, fomula 1, etc. to find out who is the best driver. The cars are set up by the race officials and that is it driver aginst driver pireod ....just like they did in the original format for Alter cup ask Kevin R ...

Mark,
Not exactly. Please reread the post.
Charter the boats using the budgeted money.
Let the sails pay for them selves when they are sold. Let the Manufacturer recover costs. Net out of pocket to the regatta is 0 for sails. Less dollars for the manufacture/sailmaker sponser so it might be more acceptable than the loss on new boats.

Hi Mike -



This. BTW, I know who originally said this and why, but that still doesn't make it correct.

We were talking in the context of some additional sponsorship ideas, and I was making the point that new sponsorship dollars are not necessarily the panacea they might seem to be. I still think seeking additional sponsorship is a good idea, but in the past, that's been problematic in light of current agreements. Nuts and bolts stuff.

Despite what anyone thinks or is told, I'm sincere in not wanting to be a distraction, sincere in hoping for success, and sincere in my plan to participate.

so what makes the "elite" sailor? One regatta or a point series? One boat or several different platforms? One region or nationwide? Buoy or distance?

I consider someone "elite" when they can take either the most advanced multihull or 4x8 plywood sheet win a regatta under any condition(s). That proves to me they have the skills, ability, and attitude to be an expert at their craft.

like anyone cares about what I think... but I like to see my posts on the internet

Thanks John.

Not picking sides here, but to some degree, I think one could argue that US Sailing doesn't make money (profit) at all.

Still don't see how any of this matters in the big picture for us.

We have a trophy, an event, and some sponsors. It's up to all of us to work together with what we have to make a good event going forward.

Mike

Mark,

The source of pain related to the Rolex/US Sailing sponsorship in the past is related to the fact that the club/event/sailors see a tiny bit (if any) of the Rolex sponsorship money but have found themselves very limited in regards to what sponsorship they can source directly for the event within US Sailing's approval to avoid conflict. Additional requirements have been in place with regards to any event related apparel or goodies so that it falls in line with what the impression that Rolex wants to see - which is fine...but the amount of hoops the people managing the event have to jump through (or avoid) has been much greater than the amount of money actually received. Even the boat provider has been limited in their ability to use the event as self-promotion. It's been a source of frustration when the club finds a sponsor and US Sailing says they can't allow them to be associated with the event because of a conflict (which goes beyond Rolex). There has also been liability related to returning Rolex marks, banners, and freight charges that also add a burden on the club.

I've missed a couple of calls lately but I did hear something earlier that these sponsorship arrangements were changing...that sounds promising.

I think it's all about perspective.

I see this as, US Sailing owns the event (we are US Sailing), and it is up to us to make it happen. I've said it before, sponsor conflict issues are nothing new, and not unique to our event. We just have to work with it.

As for the rest, I don't claim to be an expert on the full history of the event, but here's how I see it:

The event came about when the trophy was created in the 80s. The deed just calls for a multihull championship, with no discussion (at all) on how it is to be run (although it was apparently intended to be run like other championships were run at the time: various Areas qualified, etc.).

Through the years, at different phases of the event, it was run as a BYOB event, and at some point, it became possible to get manufacturers to provide boats for a low enough cost to run it under the most recent (NOT original) format.

We are now in a new phase. We stretched the prior phase out as long as we could, and arguably too long. It got to the point that we drew negative attention by drawing too much money year-after-year; and worse, ended last year with no event planned for 2012.

Regardless of your opinion, personal history, etc. on what made that happen, that's where we are today. This is absolutely not a negative statement about the efforts of others, quite the contrary: we were lucky to have the efforts of so many dedicated people to get us to this point. It's just a harsh reality that we must face as we move forward. We're not in Kansas anymore, Toto...

So, now we plan the next phase. 2012 will most likely be a transition year until we come up with a solid plan so that we can get back to scheduling events 2-3 years out.

Future events may look like 2012 event, or may be completely different. That is the purpose of the survey and the follow-up questions Mark is asking.

Anyway, that's just my perspective, and it helps me stay optimistic. YMMV...

Hope this helps.

Mike

Mark are you really this stupid or are you trying to be obtuse again. No one expects USS to give them money but with funds in hand the sailors shouldn't be charged or should be supplied with boats, something. That's what the money is supposed to be for.
If they aren't doing that and can't help our Olympic team (Lovell spent his own money) then why would anyone want to continue paying into them. It's all take.
With all your spin and argumentative BS I fully believe you'll corkscrew this into the ground permanently. I hope you prove me wrong.

Mike, if this
was the case then you and every member would have some control over things such as the amount of funds that go towards the regattas,etc. but that doesn't seem to be the case.I wish you the best of luck, and do stay optimistic.
I can't take anymore of Mark's BS twisting of every post.Too much like a douchebag politician. Stay at it Jdub, good luck.

Mark is a fan of Liz? It makes sense in so many ways.

Dismiss Johns comments as you wish, everyone ends up in the same place eventually. Mike, we'll see you on the other side. Mark you're a lifer.

Todd, it's almost like you were there.

I don't understand something (what's new?) re. the whole "Event Sponsorship" issue; are you (Mark, or John, or Jake, or whom ever knows) saying that Rolex has Exclusive Rights to all US Sailing events, or to the Alter Cup, and we cannot go out and get a different (ie. mo-money) "Event Sponsor"?? Can there be only Rolex at all US Sailing events?

What about all the "Alpha Graphics" stuff I get with my US Sailing mailouts? To be honest, I haven't seen much from Rolex in quite a while.

First, I don't know anything specific about the sponsorship figures involved. I wouldn't say Rolex has had "exclusive rights" - the event can go get additional sponsorship but it has to be reviewed and deemed not in conflict with US Sailing's other sponsors. This has included Alpha Graphics and several other companies. I understand the need to do this - but the problem is that the event finds itself limited regarding who they can approach for sponsorship and the limitations in this regard haven't seemed to be in scale with the amount of financial assistance the event gets through the US Sailing sponsorship in the past.

Do the Rolex Alter Cup winners get a Rolex watch, I know at some of the other Rolex regattas they do, but I've not heard about it at the Alter Cup.

No watch (that would be something!). Rolex hats are provided to all of the championships.

Dude, catsailors are the rebels. Rolex don't want no freaks touting their swag... It wouldn't match your sweat-stained, wife-beater t-shirt and berkinstocks anyway...

The Timex ironman would be more appropriate. Then we could "Go win the Timex" and do a "Timex 24".