when i capsize, i usually pull out the righting bag (unless someone jumps in to help me). After i right the boat.. .the bag drags under the boat until i am aboard and pull it up. It defiantly slows the boat down (as evident by the amount of force needed to pull it up and aboard)..

I guess I should have watched it to the end.

While I don't agree with the title Rick chose for this thread ("cool video"), I do thank him for posting it and starting this discussion. I think even the more experienced among us can learn something from this (I know I am).

Please note that not once did I say they should have stayed home, or that I would have if I were there (although truthfully, since having kids, I do weigh risks differently now).

I also didn't criticize them for being inexperienced, because I have no idea of their experience level, and that situation could have happened to any of us. Some days, stuff just gets out of control.

With the exception of the separated gooseneck and lost crew, I've been through every scenario as this poor boat (including both having and being a separated crew).

The important thing (to me) is to point out the stuff that went wrong, and list ways to manage or (preferably) avoid it, which many folks are doing now.

I mentioned that I always carry a radio. This video is making me think about giving one to my crew as well. Not only could they call for help, but if separated, it is easier for them to see the boat than for someone on the boat to see them in the water. They could be calling back to the boat: "Yes, I see you, you need to turn left to get back to me..."

I have also been in the situation of the rudders flipped off the back after righting, also in heavy air (NOT fun). After righting, you have just about zero control. Sheeting in the main would get you closer to head-to-wind, but it's very difficult to reach the tiller arms without flipping backwards. It's amazing how fast a Hobie 16 will travel with the tillers flipped and the sails fully eased. It has never occurred to me to lock the rudders down while the boat was capsized.

I would love someone to test the sea anchor concept, scientifically, and post a video here. On a windy day, take a power boat (for taking video and picking up the crews if needed), two identical cats (one with a sea anchor, one without), flip them simultaneously near one another, and see if the sea anchor actually allows a crew to swim back to the boat.

In this case (intentionally or not), the skipper did a good job of keeping the boat from turtling when the crew was trapped. However, I think they got lucky, because it looked like he went to help her, based on the camera angle changes.

For those that don't know this, a Hobie 16 is fully capable of righting itself in these conditions. You can be bobbing in the water next to it when it happens. So, not only is it important to know how to right a boat, it is equally important to know how to stay in control of it when capsized. You need to know how to turtle on purpose, to keep from turtling, to right it, to keep it from righting. I don't think enough people practice all of these skills.

Mike

PS: Yes, the sail number was one of the first things I noticed, and did appreciate the irony.

EDIT: It's hard to tell from the video, but it almost looked like the leeward rudder kicked up, starting the downward spiral that led to the first capsize. That could have been due to a bad cam tension adjustment, or from hitting something in the water. Did anyone else notice this?

It probably kicked because of seaweed. I had to clear our rudder 4 or 5 times that day because the seaweed was causing the rudder to cavitate.

Joe

I also recommend we be careful to criticize anybody on here. I could easily have been in the same situation when I first started sailing. Experience is not obtained easily and you can bet these guys will be better off for it next time.

There are dozens of points that can be made from this video.
Hobie 14,16, and 18's can be sailed for fun in this kind of wind once you know how. Many races over the years have been held in similar conditions, but with waves.
This is meant for informational purposes and not criticism.
A good captain should first brief an inexperienced crew. Explain to them that if they go over to make very sure to hold on to the boat because they will not be able to swim as fast as the boat will drift. Tell the crew that if the captain falls off the boat to dump the sails and head into the wind. Also when out on the wire to hold onto the chicken line and keep the jib sheet in their hands and be ready to dump the jib.
If they go over in that wind the crew should hold onto the low hull in front of the main beam because 1 person can easily right the boat. Once sure the top hull is coming down the guy on the righting line should go for the bottom hull in front of the beam. You don't want to end up under the tramp. it can be a battle to keep the boat from tipping over the other way so you need to be ready for that.

His jib track should have been all the way out and the jib was over sheeted for what they were doing. Sure the tell tales were flowing, but his main was back-winding. Use the main first then the jib. Especially on a H16 because the mast can counter rotate the way they were sailing which can cause it to break whilst double trapping.
His rudder cams looked like they could be tightened judging by how easily the rudders were popping up.
It is possible to single hand a H16 in that wind from my experience (155lbs). You can sail to windward and tack. The jib is luffing some what and the main traveler is down past the hiking strap; maybe all the way out. You need to be out on the wire and you can build up enough speed to tack(back tack). Gybing to go pick up your crew that is upwind of you is not a good plan. Turtling the boat may have slowed down the drifting. A sea anchor sounds interesting, maybe in conjunction with turtling. You better be confident the mast doesn't leak though.
Generally you should tie off the outhaul on the boom in that wind because you aren't going to be using it and it can slip. You want that sucker as tight as possible.
His downhaul looked like it could have been a bit tighter also. In that wind you want to depower to the max so that you can be aggressive.
That is enough for now. thanks

Hi BRu,
I am like Jake, I watched the first part, but didn't even see any capsize. Sorry about the title
Rick

Bingo.

Makes sense. Thanks again for posting the video.

Mike

I don't disagree with the title, I still think it's a cool video - it's actually a great video. It shows a lot of things to learn from.

Agree to disagree...

I can see why people stopped watching after a little while, it was repetitive and boring. I was wondering why anyone would post 20+ minutes of sailing along on a reach, so I started moving forward through the clip. When I got to the capsize, I thought, "GREAT, another let's make fun of how much Hobie 16s flip video."

It was when I saw the crew stuck in the rigging that my stomach literally turned. She got out, then the skipper was focused on fixing the rudders, there was another capsize somewhere along the way, etc. I was looking for the crew and always just assumed she was still there and the skipper was too busy to look at her. The music concealed any attempt at making sense of what they were saying at the time.

When I saw the Sea Tow boat show up with the crew, and read the account of how he lost sight of her for an ENTIRE HOUR is when it really went into a whole new version of uncool for me.

Mike

yeah, that tweaked me too. I would have been scared as hell if I were that guy looking at his crew tangled in the rigging.

I'm still glad it's there and public - we're talking about it and several people are probably learning from it. You can just as easily have these problems on any other catamaran or sailboat for that matter. I've been a rookie sailing distance races and in situations that were beyond my experience level - we all have....if you boil the "inexperience" down, it is situations that we didn't have the foresight to predict and don't have a plan to keep it from happening or a planB ready if it should. I've been in a couple scary, potentially life threatening, situations that I don't ever want to see again and I go to pretty great lengths to avoid those or have a plan ready if they happen. If one video can help us have an intelligent discussion about ways to make ourselves safer without having to experience it first hand, and help provide some foresight to folks that want to do these kinds of things, it's a great video in my book...and it did end well.

It's obvious to me that we've had very similar experiences, and are saying the same basic things (the discussion is great, the video was very good as a learning tool), I just would have used a word other than "cool."

Mike

Me too!

You assholes make it sound like you've never been stupid! CLASSIC!

Jake,
Did any of these happen to include pajamas,beach wheels, a half hoisted main, and an absence of drain plugs?

no...that was reputation threatening!

Sorry if I somehow came across that way, but I did you miss that I once spent the night bobbing in the Atlantic, on the bottom of a Hobie 16? If so, go back to post 9 in this thread.

In case you still think there was no stupidity leading into that, note that I was alone, without a radio or flares, wearing only a bathing suit, T-shirt, sneakers and a PFD. No food or water. Went out in a small-craft rainstorm. Third time ever on a Hobie Cat, and first time alone. Had never righted a boat before.

Capsized at 3:30 pm (in hindsight, sailed too high, the jib backwinded, and I tried to fight it to go back instead of just tacking the boat). Boat turtled. Had a righting bag, but didn't know how to use it or right the boat alone (at all, for that matter). After giving up on that, I remembered seeing a picture of a "shroud extender" in the catalog, so I thought I could rig something up on the water. As soon as I got one of the shroud pins out, I dropped it in the water.

Now, the boat is turtled and dismasted. After that hour of attempting to "fix" things, I spent the next 12 hours drifting, over 15 nautical miles along the southern coast of Rhode Island.

Got picked up at 4:30 am, by a passing yacht (172 footer, with a helicopter on the rear deck; yes, that part was cool). Got most of my boat back the next day, in pieces (apparently the CG wanted to make sure they didn’t have to go out after my sorry self ever again)…

I did do a few things right:

1. Told people that I was going sailing. Of course, they called the police first when they realized I was missing, who did nothing. By the time the CG was alerted, it was after midnight and they wouldn't send anyone out until daylight.

2. During the whole situation, didn't panic. I was fully convinced someone would come looking for me. Or, at the very least, someone would come out to go fishing and come across me.

3. Stayed with the boat (was about a mile offshore when I first capsized, some people would have tried to make that swim).

4. Took the main off the mast and wrapped myself in it as I tried to balance on the keel of one of the Hobie 16 hulls (yes, that sucks more than you can imagine, hurts and saps your energy). The sail did keep the wind off me.

5. Lots and lots of praying...

And in case that wasn’t stupid enough for you, after that I immediately bought another Hobie 16, a radio and wetsuit. Then, feeling completely immortal, I used to go out alone, with the radio tied to the tramp (i.e. not tied to me), while I trapped out on screaming reaches (offshore yet again), on a $1500 boat, the rigging of which should have failed at any given time.

If that wasn’t stupid enough, I would put my front foot on the back of the rear crossbar, with my back foot at the rudder, in an effort to keep the nose up and to keep from flying forward on the waves. Again, if it wasn’t blowing small-craft, I usually didn’t want to go out.

More than once, the New York YC signal boat would sail by and just shake their heads at me…

At the time, that was the most fun I could ever imagine having. Now, I can’t believe I ever lived through it. Would I trade it in to sit ashore? No way, just wish I would have been a bit more thoughtful…



Has anyone here ever NOT forgotten their drain plugs at least twice? You’re due.



Did you ever give an International Judge a rubber duckie bath mat for his mark boat? In front of everyone at the awards ceremony for a 8-day Hobie NAs?

Mike

The fact that the camera is following the guy's "eye line" to see what he sees throughout is incredible. I assume that the video would not have been posted if something tragic happened.

Having to rush to right a boat is a dangerous situation, in my opinion. If he could have rested on the capsized boat and pulled all together including fixing the harness problem (at least temporarily) then I think everything might have gone better.

In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.

I don't understand why race organizers didn't bail...