| Re: It was a good night to race a catamaran
[Re: mrooke]
#250905 07/17/12 05:29 PM 07/17/12 05:29 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Carl,
Last weekend we had a blast in up to 23 mph winds with the std jib on a 7 1/2 pole (like you suggested). Interestingly, the pole makes the Wave about as long as a Hobie 16 overall, but after this wild weekend we are ready for a larger head sail.
-Mark Rooke Round Rock, Texas You mean something like this?
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: It was a good night to race a catamaran
[Re: Mugrace72]
#250908 07/17/12 09:24 PM 07/17/12 09:24 PM | xanderwess
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Unregistered | What the hell is that? Bat-mo-wave?
| | | Re: It was a good night to race a catamaran
[Re: Mugrace72]
#250910 07/18/12 01:28 AM 07/18/12 01:28 AM |
Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 4 mrooke
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Posts: 4 | Jack, Perhaps... and since you asked, I do have some questions about your beautiful sail 1. What material is it made of and how large is it? 2. Since it does not overlap the mast, can you easily sail solo from the stern (e.g., like with a large jib you don't have to roll up to tack)? 3. Does it need to be all out or all rolled up, or does a partially rolled Hooter act like a smaller jib? 4. Under what conditions do you find you need to roll it up? 5. How well does it perform upwind and on a reach/downwind versus the std Wave and/or a Hobie 16? Thanks in advance, -Mark | | | Re: It was a good night to race a catamaran
[Re: mrooke]
#250913 07/18/12 06:22 AM 07/18/12 06:22 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Jack, Perhaps... and since you asked, I do have some questions about your beautiful sail 1. What material is it made of and how large is it? 3/4 oz spinnaker cloth Made by Joe Waters at Waters Sails, Columbia, SC. Joe will make it any way you want it and it is scaleable. My pole is 10' which is a little radical. 7.5' seems to be what others are using. I am working with Joe on a semi-standard design for that pole length. You might want to call him at (803) 957-5638 if you have any questions about the sail itself. 2. Since it does not overlap the mast, can you easily sail solo from the stern (e.g., like with a large jib you don't have to roll up to tack)? We designed it to sheet to a rachet block on the shroud chainplate. That way you do not need to cut a hole in the boat. Everything controls from your normal position. It does not need to be furled to gybe. Since I don't use it upwind, I haven't tried tacking. I'm going out today and will try that. 3. Does it need to be all out or all rolled up, or does a partially rolled Hooter act like a smaller jib? I have not experimented with it partly rolled up. That is a possibility. See above. I'll try that and report. 4. Under what conditions do you find you need to roll it up? It was not designed as an upwind sail, but surprisingly, it can sail pretty close to the wind. I suspect that it would not be faster upwind that a well sailed conventional Wave. I have only used this rig on a 38 mile distance race (Mug Race, Jacksonville Florida) and it was all down wind in light air. It was very fast...faster when there was more wind. I will be doing more testing this week.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: It was a good night to race a catamaran
[Re: Mugrace72]
#250914 07/18/12 06:52 AM 07/18/12 06:52 AM |
Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... RickWhite
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... | Take a look at this story and all the links in it. That will explain a lot. This was the Hooter system I developed for the Wave about 10 years ago. The concept was to make the Wave a two-person trainer boat for youth. Still has possibilities. http://www.catsailor.com/waves/superwave_overall.htmlI sell the Calvert Hooter and the entire system on our store. Here is the link: http://www.catsailor.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=9335&idcategory=0http://www.catsailor.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=8049&idcategory=0About four years ago I had the sails built for the Super Hooter, which had a roller furling, self tacking jib, and a roller furling Hooter on a 9 foot pole. I was passing a well-sailed Hobie 20 when it imploded. Since then I have beefed up the bow sprit. What Jack has done is make an even longer bow sprit, however I am pretty sure 9' is plenty. Hope to have the Super Hooter in the Sandusky Steeplechase coming up in a couple of weeks. Rick | | | Re: It was a good night to race a catamaran
[Re: mrooke]
#250925 07/18/12 06:31 PM 07/18/12 06:31 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Jack,
5. How well does it perform upwind and on a reach/downwind versus the std Wave and/or a Hobie 16?
Thanks in advance, -Mark OK, I just got in from sailing in about 10 knots. Pointing and hooters should not be in the same discussion. A Wave is faster upwind (VMG) with its mainsail only. Neither a jib nor a hooter will give you enough extra speed to make up for the lower pointing ability. However, I found it was very easy to tack from reach to reach if that is what you want to do . Gybing was even easier. A hooter has value when close to broad reaching. It does not do well DDW or pointing. I also think that it is not a tactical sail so much as a strategic device and is lots of fun just sailing around and showing off. It is more suited to distance races where you can stay on a reach for long stretches. Around the buoys I think a well sailed conventional Wave could be just as fast.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: It was a good night to race a catamaran
[Re: RickWhite]
#250930 07/19/12 07:28 AM 07/19/12 07:28 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | Jack, with my original Hooter I could point as high and go almost as fast as a hobie 16 going upwind.
With the longer pole and bigger spin you may not be able to. Rick Right...we didn't want a sail that flat. It could be made flatter, but it depends on what you want to do with it. Actually, I can flatten it a lot with more halyard tension. Last night I did't have it set that way. I will play around with it and see exactly what it is capable of.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: It was a good night to race a catamaran
[Re: Mugrace72]
#250943 07/19/12 10:48 PM 07/19/12 10:48 PM |
Joined: Jul 2011 Posts: 4 mrooke
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Posts: 4 | At the Clear Lake Wed Night races yesterday I was reminded of how beautiful spinnakers can be flying in the wind. It would be great to see some photos or even videos of Waves with these Hooters actually in action
Last edited by mrooke; 07/20/12 01:06 PM.
| | | Re: Latest spinnaker report
[Re: Mugrace72]
#250961 07/20/12 01:53 PM 07/20/12 01:53 PM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | It was not designed as an upwind sail, but surprisingly, it can sail pretty close to the wind. I suspect that it would not be faster upwind that a well sailed conventional Wave.
I have only used this rig on a 38 mile distance race (Mug Race, Jacksonville Florida) and it was all down wind in light air. It was very fast...faster when there was more wind.
I will be doing more testing this week.
We had our local fleet races last night around the standard Wave triangle with a windward leeward course. I tried to stay out of the way of the rest of the boats, not passing to windward or contesting mark roundings. Wind was 6-12 and shifty. Upwind the boat clearly makes better VMG with the sail furled. The added windage makes it slightly slower than a "clean" Wave. On reaches it is clearly faster, the windier it gets, the more the speed advantage. Dead down wind you cannot make enough VMG to catch a Wave running free. Any advantage I gained on the reaches was lost at mark roundings because there is so much extra to do. In my opinion, these sails are great for showing off and reaching back and forth with a lot of excitement. On a distance race with mostly reaching, it will outsail its handicap. Rick claims his "hooter" will sail as fast and point as high (which isn't very high BTW) as a Hobie 16. I don't believe it, but we will do some one on one testing, perhaps next week.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Latest spinnaker report
[Re: Mugrace72]
#251081 07/29/12 08:44 AM 07/29/12 08:44 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL |
In my opinion, these sails are great for showing off and reaching back and forth with a lot of excitement. On a distance race with mostly reaching, it will outsail its handicap.
Rick claims his "hooter" will sail as fast and point as high (which isn't very high BTW) as a Hobie 16.
I don't believe it, but we will do some one on one testing, perhaps next week.
Rick and I at Put-In-Bay yesterday ready to go "mono on mono". However, Rick is still in the developing stages of his new rig and had trouble getting enough luff tension on the hooter. He needs to lower the pole and I think it will be fine. Mine has a shorter luff so I can get it pretty tight. That is needed to get it to furl properly. Someone asked if you can sail with it partly unfurled and the answer is NO...absolutely not. It is either all in or all out. That is because the top tends to roll out more material than the bottom which is restrained but the furler drum. Trust me, it doesn't work well partly unfurled. After Rick came back in to reconsider his design, I went out in 8-12 knots and sailed for several hours. It is really amazing the speed that develops on a beam to broad reach. The boat literally leaps out of the water and skips over the waves. Note that this is in the famous Lake Erie chop. There is no hope to gain an advantage upwind compared to a uni-rig Wave, opinion.
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Latest spinnaker report
[Re: Mugrace72]
#251100 07/30/12 07:49 AM 07/30/12 07:49 AM |
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 921 Alachua, FL Mugrace72
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Posts: 921 Alachua, FL | I picked this up off the Hobie Forum.
Trinomite wrote: Based on the simple idea of economic return for your investments, would it not make more sense to buy a Hobie Wild Cat and consider other means of 'flying' as simple as looking at a pilot's license and leave the 'toy boats' on the beginner's circle? Regards Tri
Both Rick and I have been sailing high performance cats for 40 years...Sharks, Tornados, Hobies, Nacras, etc.
We are not interested in faster and more complex boats anymore.
We are Wave sailors and we race them..several times a week, in fact.
How many folks that read this forum really race Waves in one-design fleets?
However, we also like to play around a little, that's all.
WE DO NOT CONSIDER THE WAVE AS A "TOY BOAT"!!!
_________________ Jack Woehrle Wave #100 H20 #287 "Tallahassee Lassie" (down in FLA)
Jack Woehrle Hobie Wave #100, Tiger Shark III HCA-NA 5022-1 USSailing 654799E Alachua FL/Put-In-Bay | | | Re: Latest spinnaker report
[Re: jackbr549]
#251467 08/17/12 11:38 AM 08/17/12 11:38 AM |
Joined: Mar 2002 Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... RickWhite
Carpal Tunnel
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Carpal Tunnel
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Posts: 3,355 Key Largo, FL and Put-in-Bay, ... | Got stormed out the last day, but still got in 9 races. Doug Seib and I tied for first, broke in his favor. Jim Glanden was 3rd, followed by John Sherry, Ray Matuszak, Jack Woehrle, Betty Bliss, Mark Scarpelli, Steve Abbey, Michelle Marman, Mike Powers, Peter Murray, Dick Bliss and Matt Wirth
Parties were awesome as usual.
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