Mark thanks for your reply and I only have a few comments. There is no place to launch a cat here in my town anymore unless you find private land. There are power boat ramps but they are not cat friendly (low draw bridge between bay and ramp with 5 knot current). We have gone to the town and pleaded for access and been turned down and no boat can be left on the beach overnight. We tried to have a regatta and we had to rent the entire parking lot 2,000 per day even off season. There is a yacht club but no beach access and one really steep ramp on the sound side and no beach.
Your nephew needs to check out IMBA for his mountain biking they help clubs get grants, build trails provide insurance. We had our only trail close down several years ago when someone fell and broke there neck and sued the county parks. We did get the trail back open by joining IMBA to provide insurance and help educate the county. We now have a second park opened and just received a 20,000 grant for trail work. Most of the trails are built and maintained by the riders but we do get some financial help from the parks. We have also been contacted by another county to start another park/trail. I guess my point was to help your nephew and when our first trail closed it was just a local group of riders building the trails when the county closed the park. It took the IMBA organizations help to get the park to reopen.
I guess your last comment about a beach and a mountains value is a little hard to understand. Beach access would be a 8'-10' path from road to beach or just a ramp to the water with some kind of ground to pull you boat up. I think most beaches are public to the high water line and have public access. We have the beach paths they just put post in the middle and passed a law for no boats its not about land. Mountain biking takes a lot more space as most trails are 4 to 35 miles long so you do need a lot of land.

Wow, still going?

I only came in to shut down the myth that loss of local access is a valid reason to not join US Sailing. You guys did the rest.

I've launched from ramps, some are easy, others don't work. I was just trying to get people to think outside of the box. There are always more options than you realize; it's really not a big deal.

Read Mark's posts again. Take away all the name calling and defensiveness (on all sides) and he makes a lot of valid points here.

I am the MHC Chair. Will I defend US Sailing? Of course, especially on a topic like this. The organization just isn't meant to be doing what you're asking. We can help, but the grunt work is always local.

David, I honestly wish the mountain biking to beach access argument were so simple. You said it yourself; look at how far you can go with $20,000 with biking. They want hundreds of thousands or more to build boat ramp parks, let alone beaches. Waterfront property, even on some little pond, is ridiculously expensive.

Most places would be OK with our cats (very little environmental footprint, etc.), but they would then have to answer to jetskiers and powerboaters or risk being accused of favoritism. So it's easier just to keep everyone out.

Why do I care? I'm actually trying to help you guys by killing these myths.

How do I know what I'm talking about? My Hobie fleet is always looking for new venues. Our officers and members work really hard with local and state authorities to make this happen. We don't use that as a reason to not join HCA or US Sailing. All that would accomplish is wasting time and effort that could be spent doing something more fruitful... Oh the irony...

Mike

Mike
The 20,000 was a grant we got to build trails only. The county built the roads, well, bathrooms, gazebo, kayak launch, provided signs and the bikers, hikers, horse riders built there own trails. Most beaches have public access they just don't allow cats through them. No need to build a beach it is already public land. I guess the ramps show favoritism to the power boaters and jet skiers. It does not cost hundreds of thousands to put a couple loads of sand by a ramp or clear away some brush. It would be nice if we could just have a more positive attitude. I made a comment about US sailing helping with cat access and I just got beat up with it.

Dave

HOW is asking you to step up and take a lead in an area that you clearly care about is called "beating you up."?

there are 10 Area Reps and a couple of chairs in the MHC. Plus a few cat sailors who volunteer in other areas... getting done what is on the table now is a struggle.... Putting more on the table requires more people to step up and do work.

My position is... Yes, I think US Sailing could play a role in local beach access issues.. In my experience, these issues were entirely local....BUT I could see value in a US Sailing position in your local battle.

However, It will take someone like yourself to step up and make that happen. You can say... sorry, not interested... but you can't play the victim and say... you were beat up!

Until multihull sailors outnumber the green types, you're f'd. As long as the population keeps booming, you're f'd.

I'm being as positive as possible with all the negativity being thrown our way. I gave constructive advice to help improve the situation. At some point, frustration takes over.

Mike

Yes it does. So name in the last year, all the beach access sites you have gotten in Florida. It shouldn't be to hard, I mean with over 700 miles of coast, surely you can prove what everyone's dues went for. I know all the money stayed in Florida, and we are benefitting in so many ways.....so enlighten us. Name the city or county government, and location of launching sites that are presently under negoiations, and or obtained. Isn't there a saying somewhere, "if we build it, they will come."

Forrest I-20

Mike,Mark,
Thanks for your work in US sailing and stepping up for a no paying job. I don't know how US sailing is structured where the money goes and what goals they have. Explaining that or a link might go a long way to help others understand what there dues go to.
Mark
I guess I felt beat up with your comment about if you want it come make it happen . I may have misread the comment as reading something and talking face to face is a lot different.

Is sailing not green? Maybe we need some new verbiage about wind power. The government is all about saving energy at our expense ( might need a new thread for that this winter).

Dave
no worries.

good luck at the F18s

DELRAY BEACH, FLORIDA 33444 We presently are allowed 60 spots for mast up storage $250 per year. There are 2 areas to launch beach cats one mile apart in Delray. There are also many SUP, kayakers and kite surfers using the same area, and we all get along.

I forgot to mention that quite a few years ago the city wanted to stop allowing us our beach access, at that time we were allowed 30 spots. The sailors and friends got together and fought city hall. The result was when we left we had 60 spots instead of 30. It can be done.

You need to re-read all of my prior posts, you clearly just don't get it, and aren't even trying...

EDIT: Hullflyer clearly gets it (THANK YOU!!!). Beach access is a local issue. US Sailing helps with other issues.

--------------------

David, seriously? Is your browser broken???

http://about.ussailing.org/About_Us.htm

Be sure to click on Strategic Goals as well.

By “access” I believe they mean access to programs, not access to all the beaches in the country, which is why I recommended working with YCs or CBCs.

Hope this helps.

Mike

Mike, I'm not sure why you're attacking a guy who has been exceptionally cordial and only proposing an interesting comparison between sporting authorities. The point is, it doesn't have to be a local issue. US Sailing could take up the task to help people with local water access issues. Maybe it's building a document that helps people understand the general legal processes involved, a glossary of terms...perhaps, it's having some experts on tap that can provide advice. Maybe it's as advanced as having an advocate in several key states that can go to bat with the local guys.

David makes a good comparison in that mountain biking is a sport that carries as much, if not significantly more, risk for an organization or property owner than someone providing water access for us to launch boats on. How are they able to secure new parks and grow while our access is becoming more limited than ever? This is a good question. It doesn't seem to be reverted to just "a local problem" within their organization.

If nothing else, this could be another tangible benefit that US sailing can point to. This actually fits quite well with the linked strategic goals.

I think the mountain bike guys may have a bit easier time than the cat sailors, as they are looking for access to...the woods, and with the politicals, it's out of sight, out of mind, where the cats are looking for BEACH access...and you KNOW those same politicians also want to have access to the beaches, and don't want any 'stray cats' out there, running over little Johny, playing in the waves.

We may have better luck if we get together with the Surfer Dudes and the Kite Boarders on this, than with US Sailing.

I know when ever I come in to land at a public beach, lake or ocean, there always seems to be a bunch of kids around who, instead of moving out of the way, just stand there looking at you, coming at them! I always say to myself, "Just don't HIT anyone!"

Can you imagine the lawsuit if you did injure some little kid while beaching your cat?

Mike
Thanks for the link sorry I did not take the time to look it up.

MISSION: Provide leadership, integrity and advancement for the sport of sailing.

VISION: Be the recognized leader in training and certification, in support for the racing sailor and in facilitating access to sailing.

After reading the Mission and Vision I could not help to think that providing sailboat access at public launches would fall into "facilitating access to sailing" If you don't have a place to launch your boat you can't sail. Wow US sailing spends a lot of money. I thought it was only volunteer there is even a pension plan. A lot of money goes to the Olympics which really does not cater to the masses (it could be donations). What does US sailing own that is worth around 500,000 (not exact number)? After reading the little I did I am more put off on US sailing and what they are doing with the money.
Tim
Aren't all beaches public up to the high water line? Yes it would probably be better to work with the surfers and kite boarders as they do have surf only areas at beaches.
I would say that most boaters have liability insurance and bikers don't as the bike is covered under your homeowners so I don't agree with your comparison. I would say there are plenty of lawsuits from bikers and that was why I brought this up about US sailing using there power in numbers to help like the IMBA has for mountain bikers. I am sorry I said anything now and I don't really think US sailing is something I want to be a part of, but I do support people that give there personal time to help sailing in general so thanks to all for your efforts and time.

Jake, I wasn't attacking anyone. It is irritating to constantly be asked what the benefits are, what the goals are, etc. when it's just as easy for people to go to the US Sailing site and look it up. Where do you think I go for the answers???

If you look back, you will see that I (and Mark and probably others) agree that the MHC can create a list of guidelines and best practices for those in local negotiations to use.

David, I respect your decision to not join, even though I think it is misguided. "Access to sailing" does NOT mean "access to the beach" and you most definitely can sail without access to a beach. I've given other options throughout the discussion.

Don't like the idea of going to a YC or CBC (me neither)? Do the legwork to make local access happen (that's what we do locally here).

Mike

Mike

I guess you are not reading my post. I am not just talking about beach access. I am talking about public ramp launch access to be cat friendly. I have said we have tried locally to get access and been denied. The yacht club does not have cat access and a long waiting list (most people join to get parking and beach access and don't even own sailboats). I don't expect US sailing to come in and change things in my local area and I expect that this is becoming common in other areas. Just saying getting cat access will help promote our sport every time an area closes I would guess we lose sailors. Wrightsville beach had over 100 boat regattas in the 80's and now you can't even keep a cat on the beach overnight unless it is on private property.

In my town there are a few boat ramps and even two spots to get the boat on the beach without a ramp. Problem is they don't allow you to park your trailer anywhere.

The boat ramps do have parking, at $15 per, and you have to dodge everyone when trying to step the mast. Oh, and one has power lines stretching across the ramp 15 feet up. oops.

Pete found a free launch spot or two in Hickory Bay, but it's pretty shallow, and a ramp.

Sanibel causeway is pretty good spot - $8 to get over the bridge, but gets you gulf access, lots of space and pretty beaches... Not sure if they'd allow overnight stuff if we had a multi-day regatta there...

Getting back to what started this, I think it was about paying for Insurance at Founder's Park, is that right? And US Sailing was going to sell them a policy for $1,000? Or more than that?

If 50 boats show up, that's $20 each, added to the entry fee.

Anyone got a problem with that? I think last year's entry fee was what, about $150? So this year it would be $170.

Or is there a lot more to it than that?

And if we use the Islander, I assume we are going to be sailing on the "outside" vs. in the bay, where we normal race, is that right?