For the moment can we forget about the current rule set and just propose a design for a good 16ft single hander, once we establish what are desirables then we can work backwards to how those desirables can integrate into the F16 rule set.

Something which is totally heresy to the class is weight, perhaps we need to be increasing the weight of the single hander to perhaps 125kgs or even more, hull shapes ( water drag ) don't seem to mind the extra weight, we would get a much more pitch resistance shape and suddenly the SCHRS handicap would reduce down to a point where the solo could be competitive.

Its not my ideal as I'm a weight weeny when building stuff but having now sailed a much heavier boat with a modern rig set up, I have to say I was quite impressed on just how it just trucked on through everything and rather than quick bursts of speed, just maintained a very high average speed. It was not a thrilling boat to sail mind you in comparison to the hotrods we sail.

On the other hand...is there any beach cat that can keep up with a good sailor on an A cat going upwind? Do the A Cat builders look for heavier or lighter boats?

So...wouldn't a 16' A cat, with a spin added, be a good 16' single hander for the purpose of this discussion?

As I have stated earlier in this thread, a shortened DNA would be almost the perfect single hander in my view. Not sure it would even need the front beam moving if a jib wasn't planned on being used.May need to move the C boards futher foward to allow for the spinny. Build it of glass and some carbon to bring it up to weight, job done, extra sales for DNA and a new toy enters the fray, dedicated as a single hander.

I think the SCHRS handicap calculator may have other views but then I guess we as solos are always on a loser there, so whats new.

Until someone builds a boat within the current rule set optimised for single handers I dont think you can assume that you wont be competitive.

By the way there are 2 very well sailed blades here in Australia that routinely beat sloops across the line and win races.

Maybe you should have a talk to those guys about bringing a one up f16 up to speed.

Starting with a boat that doesn't measure just to try stuff out and then working backwards to fit the rule, makes no sense to me.

The scientific way to do it would be, start with a boat that measures, change one thing at a time within the rules. Keep what works change what doesn't. Extra speed probably lies in setting up you boat to suit you and keeping things really simple.

And it wouldn't hurt to not think about stuff too much and have some fun.

I wonder how much money would be saved by building a 16' DNA out of glass, vs. the present 18' carbon hulls, and then using aluminum beams and mast, vs. paying for all the carbon stuff on the DNA.

I agree with Adio, more time spent out practicing will make you faster than trying to build a tweeked out uni boat.

In the end, you still have to sail it right, no matter what you build, and no specialtiy build is going to give you two extra hands when you really need them!

Screw that. Go full on Carbon. No reason to add weight, or take away strength and stiffness.

I think the DNA would be too fine a hull, but... Might work well. The question is would it hold up to the added loads of more sail area, and a spinnaker?

You're changing your name from Squidpig to Flying Turd Man?

I read somewhere carbon is brittle, see the AC72 thread maybe.

Making the mast in Ali is probably the wrong way to go, the A class have developed rigs and masts that are way ahead of ours at present, far better to just use that knowledge and leap frog the development time.

I think Wouter has put on this forum a number of times, calculations that put Ali on a par with Carbon as a beam, yes it won't be as light in weight, but in robustness and cost effectiveness to get similar bending moments,then a properly engineered Ali beam is fine.

As for Carbon in hulls, yes it will give a very low weight to strength ratio, but we probably have a 5kg weight per hull to find to bring the boat up to around 100kgs, why not just beef up the hulls to such an exent that they become really tough and long lasting. All to often I have punched a hole right through my A Class hulls ( all carbon )in launching and handling errors ( twice I have put the tip of my trapeze hook through on getting back on board after a capsize ) where if they had been made in more durable glass, would that have happened.

Do agree that practice and yet more practice will always give better performance gains than any boat upgrade.

you uni folk, where do you see the greatest disparity? Straight line speed or the transitions (tack/gybe, spin set/retrieval)?

I suspect the extra pair of hands plays a far greater role in overall performance than the additional weight.

It's not in straight line speed that they Uni is at a disadvantage, unless it's really blowing. It's at the spinnaker launch at A mark and even worse at the snuffing. There's a whole lot to be done there, quickly, and only 1 extra hand (if one is holding the tiller) to get it all done. If anything goes wrong, (spin halyard snags, etc.) you are screwed.

Kind of like a one legged man in an butt kicking contest!

Bingo.

and Pete, carbon is brittle. Brittle = stiff. Stiff = fast(er)



Retrieval isn't so bad. For me its the hoist. There's a lot more going on that you have to cool the boat down for. Especially if its moderate conditions where you can barely be on the trapeze. I can release the gross adjuster for the rotation on the wire, the downhaul, and the pull the tack, but you still have to slow it down, and come in off the wire hoist. Two up the skipper can stay on the wire all the way around the top mark and the offset.

Yeahbut...at the C mark, I want it all done now, (boards down, rotate mast back to upwind, downhaul on, outhaul out, traveler up, oh...and snuff the spin with one hand, while driving with the ohter) so I can round clean and close, trim in the main and get out on the wire, asap.

At A mark, I just ease the traveler out, then get the kite up fast, and do all that other stuff (rotator, cunningham, outhaul, boards) once it's up and going....if I can...without swimming!

I don't touch the boards. If I need them up, I've found I need them up all the way around the course. I'm sure some adjustment would be beneficial, but too much grip upwind, tends to be too much down wind. Same with outhaul, I don't touch it hardly at all. I pretty much set it on the beach unless something drastic changes. Outhaul doesn't seem to have much effect on these boats.

I also use a couple of set of boards depending on the conditions. I pull mast rotation back on, downhaul on a bit while the spinnaker is still up. Usually at this point I've cooled the boat down a bit, and I'm just about to douse anyways. All depends on the conditions, heavier air I'm cooling down sooner for the gate. If you get the sheeting right, and the traveller set right, the boat will actually round the mark while you are dousing. If you're too slow, or something goes wrong though, then it'll be on its way to going head to wind, and that's not fast either.



One thing I don't think we'll ever see, is a single hander flying a hull the entire time during a douse or hoist like the extremely good two up sailors can. I can't do it even with crew. That **** takes some practice! More time than I've got anyways. lol

Well...I just spent 5 hours in Sarasota Bay getting my butt handed to me buy a bunch of kids. I was sailing Uni, the only Uni there, all the rest were sloops. Two little girls on a new Falcon drove over me going upwind!

BUT...those two together didn't weigh what I way alone (about 200 all up), and they had their jib on, which I would have LOVED to have had out there, in the light air and slop, with occaisional puffs of medium wind (0-8, mostly 5, at most), but LOTS of big motor boat chop.

There is nothing worse than sitting in a hole going upwind getting tossed about by the many cris-crossing motorboat wakes, like being in a washing machine. And without a jib, very little 'drive' to get over the big chop, or get moving agian when you get stopped by the big ones, even when there was a little breeze.

SO...now my "Optimum Uni" would have a Jib of some sort. Wether you cut down the main, to add a jib, or just allow the standard jib to be used when Uni, I don't care which. But having a jib to help drive you over the humps that the motorboats throw at you would be very nice!

Oh, also, I kept count, I did lose at least two boats at every C gate, when there were groups of us there, due to not having enough hands to both drive and snuff at the same time... Several times I went in first in the group, and came out behind the others, as they were able to keep their speed up through the rounding while I was not.

When I was able to fly a hull downwind, and go lower, at the same speed the sloops were going (higher) I caught several boats on the runs, as I could sail a shorter course going deeper on one hull, than they could on two. If there had been a little more wind, I think I would have been more equal with them both upwind and down, but that miserable motorboat chop going upwind in light air, will stop a light, Mainsail only. boat very quickly.

I've always liked the idea of limiting sail area for the two configurations, not liming it to where it goes.

On the flip side, you don't see much for jibs in the a-class.

A lot of people keep quoting this little nugget. We have a very large jib out front called a spinnaker for downwind, the A's only have 14sqm of all up sail ( yes they can run a jib if they want ) and if say 3.5m of that as a jib is being obscured by the main in downwind mode then its best to just have 1 large Main. Randy Smythe revisited the A main / jib recently but found the upwind gains were more than lost downwind.

Another class would be the old F18HT which started life as a main only, most have now been converted to a main / jib setup for the very reasons we are talking about.

but did the F18HTs sacrifice main area to add the jib or increase their total sail area?