We haven't had a decent rules discussion on here in while and I haven't had a chance to investigate this myself. I had a scenario racing monohulls this weekend and I'm not sure what rights we had....looking for (intelligent) input.

Light air race, 1st beat to weather, two boats are approaching A-mark. Prior to reaching the zone at the mark, Boat A (me), on port, was very close to crossing in front of boat B, on starboard, (a slightly faster - similar size boat). We were both clearly outside of the zone. Instead of risking the close cross, we cleanly tacked from port to starboard and leebowed Boat B intending to round A mark in this position. We were overlapped as we both entered the zone on starboard. However, a slight wind shift meant neither boat could lay the mark without a tack - again, both of us are on starboard and we were overlapped inside boat B and neither of us are able to fetch the mark on this tack.

As we approached the mark, we found ourselves hoping that boat B would tack away early leaving us room but this didn't happen and we eventually found ourselves with our bow under A-mark as boat B finally tacked away. We had to bear away, gybe, come back to close hauled, run for a short bit on port, and then tack back for A (naturally, after letting some traffic by that was coming in on starboard).

What should we have done in this scenario to minimize the damage? Did we have any options to request room from boat B to tack onto port to reach A-mark? I do believe that boat B did sail a proper course - they certainly didn't HAVE to tack earlier for any other reason.

No help from the rules, it was a slow down and win scenario. You should have taken his stern.

perhaps, although if I were boat B and saw that, I'd park, too, as long as I had maneuvering speed...

Until a rule expert shows a different strategy, I'd say boat B sailed that pretty smart...

So, Jake, boat A couldn't drive off /gybe before overstanding the mark? Or were you just hoping B would tack away earlier?

That's a good one!

Sure, we could have. By the time we realized we were not going to fetch the mark, we may have better served to peel off at that time and gybe around - or parking the boat, letting him go by, and then tacking. We were just hoping he would tack away - but that was probably a bit naive. The traffic behind, though, wasn't going to make either one of those options pleasant.

Pete, the 20/20 hindsight maneuver would have been to duck him and tack safely on the layline and have starboard, non-tacking, rights on a boat that needed to tack inside the zone - but at the time we made the lee bow maneuver, we could lay the mark and round with inside rights - until the wind shifted.

And that was a winning move... BUT Sailing is Sailing..

The other boat was slightly ahead of you... so you made an agressive move to win.

What did the traffic look like behind you... were you going to find a hole.... or were you going to be screwed no matter what....??

Mind you... everyone else got the knock.... and some would have had to tack for the new lay line as well.

Equally interesting is that you were in a monohull.... your judgement would be different were you on a cat... (luff and tack... or jibe and tack) Switching tactical gears in you head like that just seconds from the 3 bl circle .... tough!

What happened before reaching the zone (the lee-bow) would only matter if rule 17 came into play (which it didn't) What is more important is that the boats were both on starboard tack, overlapped at the zone of a mark that was to be passed to port.

Rule 18 does apply, as none of the exceptions in the preamble or rule 18.1 are met. Therefore, the outside boat (O) is required to give the inside boat (I) mark-room.

If you look at the definition of mark-room, however, you'll see that it says "...mark-room for a boat does not include room to tack unless she is overlapped inside of and to windward of the boat required to give mark-room...". Because boat I was overlapped to leeward of boat O rather than to windward of her, boat O is not required to give boat I room to tack.

Boat I could have gone head-to-wind in an attempt to shoot the mark, or to encourage boat O to tack, and boat O would need to keep clear. Boat O is not under any requirement, however, to let boat I tack.

From the description given, it sounds like boat I sailed into a bad position (albeit by a windshift) and boat O closed the door on her cleanly.

I hope that helps,
Eric

The traffic actually wasn't bad - we could have easily taken his stern and tacked for A without worrying about anyone else had we thought that was the best course of action at the time - we were a gnat's butt from being able to cross him and had positioned ourselves to do it. He was starting to luff up as we got near him. With it being light, I really didn't have a good feel for how much the boat momentum would carry him. I got nervous so I called off the cross. We were pretty much left with the choices to do a hard bear away (probably not a good idea in that light stuff) or go for the lee bow.

If we were a little more decisive with our maneuver, we probably could have bailed out and gotten behind him for the mark without impeding another boat. As it was, however, we waited until it was too late and lost another boat in the process.

With regards to sailing a monohull, I'm thinking about getting more involved in our local racing scene...the luffing/momentum thing was different, but man, there was SOOOO much time to think about the tactics in light air close quarters and you can still maneuver - it's very different. and I really enjoy crewing - it was a lot of fun. We had a pretty good results too.

The other option would have been to tack to starboard as soon as you realized it was going to be a close crossing situation. By tacking early, you would have given yourself clear air and the opportunity to play the shifts. In this particular case, since the wind went left, tacking early would have given you the advantage since you would have been farther left than your opponent when the wind went left.
It sounds like you may have been trying to get out to the starboard layline too early. In monohull racing, you're often better staying away from the laylines for as long as possible in order to be able to take advantage of wind shifts.

sm

I've read the '09-'12 rules and it seems to me that we were just sunk. I don't think boat B owed us anything. The Mark Room rights gained by entering the zone with overlap looks like it evaporates when either one of us tacks. Then it becomes room and opportunity to tack (which we wouldn't be able to give since we were so close) and port / starboard. His proper course was to tack for A-mark but him tacking just short of the mark is a reasonable "proper course" expectation. I think we should have started working on an exit at the point we realized we weren't going to make the mark.

Could we have luffed him into oblivion before we reached A and make him uncomfortable to the point that he would have to tack? It may have taken us both down by letting the traffic behind catch us AT the mark - so probably not a maneuver I would have tried in that instance...but it may be a thought. Can I tack under and inside another boat and proceed to luff him inside the zone since neither of us are fetching the mark? I can't say that this has ever been a real possibility on a cat because you usually get rolled right away when you tack under someone.

We were maybe 10 to 20 feet from the zone around the mark when we tacked to starboard and entered the zone shortly after engaging the lee bow - I wouldn't say we tried to lay the line too early. It was lake sailing at its best. It would not had made sense to tack earlier and intentionally just short of the layline.

After the wind shift... How long did you have to salvage the situation... ie before you got to the port lay line and all hope for him to tack had turned to despair and you had to jibe around..

Could you have escaped without giving up the boat behind you by luffing and then tacking astern of him ... hopefully for a hole.....

Even so... it soundsl ike a luff and tack would have saved you a bit of time... on handicap

hard to say - 1+ to 2 minutes from tacking into the leebow and reaching the mark/point of no return...maybe?

It is amazing how Hope can freeze your decision making process.

At best... you could have followed him around the mark... at worst, you lost a few boats.

I can just see a Stuart Walker stem winder piece explaining what HE would have done in the two minutes....but did not do...

Eric, thanks - I had missed your post. That confirms what we thought was the case (and how we acted to keep clear of the other boat). Basically, we put ourselves in a hero-or-zero position and probably should have reacted sooner to minimize the impact from the zero position we found ourselves in.

If stuck in the same situation in the future, I would probably fall off sharply to get enough separation to tack under his stern. He would probably follow suit and blanket us by tacking with us to port and then I wait for him to tack back for A with us falling in line on starboard and behind....which is better than losing position to a 3rd boat.

I've screwed that situation up so many times I automatically opt for going below if there is any doubt whatsoever.

Could you not have luffed him up forcing him to tack?

I see this a lot in protests, usually at kids regattas, where a port boat will insist that they were "ahead" because they "almost" had enough room to cross. They often miss the fact that they're a tack behind, at best, even if they make the cross.

Fortunately, at least you didn't have that misconception.

Mike

Tony, Yes... he could have luffed to head to wind (time and opportunity allowed)... but he was hoping the other guy would let him out of the box with a more favorable outcome for him. Hope springs eternal in that situation... (don't ask me how I know)...

Jake ... would a slow luff to head to wind (giving room and opportunity as you approached the port layine have encouraged him to go a bit early? and get you both through the traffic? (You are not sailing cats after all.... so this kind of move could work)

Possibly - I'm still a little unclear if I had rights to luff him...I think I did...any thoughts?