My understanding is Martin Fisher the designer of both boats kept the name when AHPC went to the C2 and he lives on the Tropic of Capricorn so he decided to reuse the name and the basic lines of the boat.

It is important to remember that the Capricorn existed before AHPC started building it and I honestly don't know how the licencing/royalties worked, so it is probably like comparing the Aus Flyer to the Boyer Mk5.

We now have a Capricorn 2 at our club and it looks very nice (although it is a little scary when the foils are taller than you).

I checked the web site and the PSA Capricorn is on par with a Wildcat and Infusion MK II.
All three at $25,000 USD
Phantom at $28,000 USD
C2 at $23,500 USD
Cirrus R $24,000 USD (but that's not a recent quote)
Falcon F-18 $24,000 USD

Not really seeing any big difference price wise to promote or deter any boat. I am considering dealer and part availability as well as design and performance.

Rich,

I've sailed the Infusion the most, and have done a couple events on the C2. I don't think you could go wrong with either boat, and I'm pretty well convinced there is not much of a speed difference between the two. Personally, I like the layout on the Infusion slightly better than the C2, but that could just be because I have sailed the Infusion more.

I think the chord length of the C2 boards is slightly bigger than the Infusion boards, so that is a little more forgiving when downspeed or on a startline. That said, we have found the Infusion with the long boards is super fast in marginal single wire conditions. Either boat should work well, and the ergonomics that make me happy as a crew (adjustable traps, cunningham lead to trapeze, etc.) can be added to either boat.

That said, if I were going to buy a new boat, I would look very hard at the Falcon. The boat has been getting some good results down south this winter, and I really like the dealer support combo of Falcon Marine and Glaser Sails.

Good input Jeff I have made a trip to see the Falcon in San Diego. Luckily Dennis Key got me into the Mission Bay Yacht club to see and sail the boat. Never got to sail as there was no wind for 2 days but most of my questions were answered.
Yes the dealer support of Falcon marine or Red Gear racing are both top notch. Nacra is said to be improving, Hobie is well established, Phantom, Cirrus and PSA are yet to be established here in the U.S. However I did get a E-mail from PSA saying there is a distributorship in the works.

I need to make my final decision by the end of March. Happy Birthday to me I get a new F-18. Or maybe a F-17 or F-20 C and keep the Tiger.

Have sailed the F20c a good bit in Singapore- it's a great boat. Do you have handicap events in which you could race it? Be aware that the sheet loads are quite a bit higher than the F18, especially the kite, although this can be helped with running double ratchets.

I have had outstanding dealer support for my Nacra from Rick at New England Catamarans.

Yes New England Catamarans is great but is too far for me to deal with. Mikey at Surf City Catamarans is now selling the Nacra line and is a great guy to work with. My goal is to have a new boat in time to train for the GT-300 and the F-18 American Championship.

I am now 95% committed to my new boat. My Tiger is going to be sold in the next 2 weeks (hopefully) and ne boat will follow shortly after.

Thank You everyone for the input and thoughts. This thread did help in making the decision for a new boat easier.

and? All this lead up, and no money shot? What are you getting?

Karl a last minute sponsorship opportunity has held me up from announcing or placing the final order. I'm quite sure as a business owner you would not sponsor someone if they were on a boat that has a deal with one of your competitors in business. It's not a huge amount of money but it is enough to sway my decision from one boat to the other if need be.

Now I got to pay for the sail for the Tiger that I ripped at the Worlds then give it away.

Boat: Nacra F18 Infusion

Likes:
1) Hull design holding up well in terms of overall competitiveness.
Dislikes:
1) X-beam bolt Designs. Stainless steel/aluminum interface connections at hulls and beams *will* result in galvanic corrosion if not watched , bolts regularly/ carefully treated. Quite plainly, an epic, idiotic design fail. All connections should be of similar metal, esp at water soaked areas, best solution to this issue would be allow non-galvanic titanium bolts in place of steel for the interface (bolts not as expensive as you think), but stainless bolt/stainless thread would be okay too. (heavy though)too. Related: Why design a boat with 2 different bolt heads on front and rear? Please Explain? (Dumb) Rear bolt heads low profile a PITA.
2) Stock snuffer material (i.e. not the sailcloth type, but the black stuff) totally degrades and falls apart in about 2-3 years.
3) Lack of tack-line grommet on tramp means you probably will saw through your tramp if rigged for speed.
4) Stock shroud adjusters are wetsuit carnivorous. Ronstan's design way better.
5) Jib hook arrangement funky/halyard a little fragile
6) Daggerboards nice and sturdy, but trunk panels inside, pretty meager. Stoppers on older boats a little primitive
7) lack of port shroud upf*&^ker hardware
8) Tuning guide a total crock.

Thanks All
http://www.capricornsailing.com/
We will be at the GT-300 with the new Capricorn and hopefully the F-18 Americas also.

Rich, What is your logic here?
The Capricorn quickly developed a reputation for being overly sensitive off the wind and difficult to push hard.
Now you have an older design and an only boat that is not supported in your country.

I believe he is referring to the new Capricorn that is made by Performance sailcraft in Australia NOT AHPC...hopefully these issues you speak of have been worked out with the new design.

http://www.capricornsailing.com/index.cfm?nfid=71&nid=104211
http://www.sail-world.com/USA/F18---the-Hot-new-Capricorn-%28Part-I%29/103505

We are getting the New PSA Capricorn F18. Chris Caldecoat and Martin Fischer took the original design and re worked it. More volume easier down wind and new foils and rudders.

Martin has also done the Capricorn, Wildcat, Phantom, GC-32 and was hired to re do this boat using his original design as a base. It is built at the Fountaindale NSW factory where the laser, byte, RS are built. (the old Hobie factory)

There is a couple different importers that may carry the Capricorn and full parts line. While it is a risk buying the first imported boat into the country I liked what I read about the boat and what a couple people said that had sailed it. I also liked the openness of the builders and information they shared.

This is taken from the web site.



F18 - the Hot new Capricorn (Part I)

1:27 PM Sun 4 Nov 2012
Every now and then a racing boat comes along that has success written all over it. Such is the new F18 Capricorn catamaran, Designed by multihull expert Dr Martin Fischer and built by an Australian marine company with a long, long multihull pedigree, Performance Sailcraft Australia (PSA). the boat is already delivering the goods

Dr. Martin Fischer lives in warm and windy Noumea and that is exactly how he describes the conditions there, which is definitely perfect for cats. This fluid dynamics legend has been and still is, attached to some of the most exciting wind-powered, high-speed, water born craft around. Add to that equation that he’s French and their favourite nautical device is the multihull, and you’ll see that the whole thing is definitely a good match.

Like any dedicated marine enthusiast, Martin is always striving for perfection. Currently he has a new A-Class and the 10-metre CG32 on the go, with another small cat in the mix, as well. Busy. And that does not even touch on his work in climate change. However, our main area of attention here is to his very recent enhancements to his original design of the Formula 18 Catamaran known as the Capricorn.

What follows, are the thoughts that Martin and Chris Caldecoat, the GM of Performance Sailcraft Australia, the highest volume boat builder in Australia have and an explanation of the pathway that has got them to the point of releasing the new Capricorn GEN 2.

Firstly though, if you have not seen an F18 cat in full flight, then you’re certainly missing something.

Even more so, if you have not seen a cloud of these cats approach the top mark, head off to the hitch and then bear away for the set, then the noise from water, sail and humans can only be described as an intoxicatingly, raucous rush.

‘It was really good and a lot of fun to come back to the Capricorn after the Wild Cat. Chris had the initiative, as he’d raced the Capricorn and really liked the boat. At that time we all knew that the Capricorn was a really quick boat, but a bit nosey, so quite difficult to sail downwind. The rights for the Capricorn had come back to me as a result of the creation of the C2, so Chris asked me to have a look at improving the original and here we are.

Chris is a very good sailor and has had a lot of input based on all his observations and knew exactly what he wanted to improve, so this is the way we progressed together’, said Martin.

‘The F18s are bit like the V8 Supercars and NASCAR, where if you win on the Sunday, you sell on the Monday’, said Chris.

‘They are a people orientated brand and the only sailing class that I know, to which this phenomenon occurs. F18s are the biggest cat class around the globe and I believe this is because it covers a wide demographic and is relatively affordable. Perhaps that’s a bit similar to Etchells.’

‘If you look at the F18 races, you can have two 18 year old kids out there, a girl and a boy, just like the new mixed Olympic multihull, or a 65 year old steering with a young bloke up the front. The latter is still winning races at the World Championships, so they mightn’t win the regatta overall, but every now and then the dog has its day and that’s enough to keep them in the class, which keeps people buying and it goes back to being a true club sport.’

‘F18s have a crew weight limit of 150 kilos, so you can either put a 90 and 60 kilo crew together, or you can both be 75. If you go under, you do get a little lead penalty, which means it all stays very competitive and that all helps to ensure a widespread appeal, as well.' said Chris.

So the original Capricorn was designed by Martin and built in Bendigo. Its name was more of an homage to the particular degree of latitude that runs through Martin’s adopted home, than to any goat bounding around the hills of country Victoria. Not only was it a sales success, but out on the track it took its fair share of World Championships, too.

More info at www.capricornsailing.com.

After five or six years, it has been superseded by the not new model and we’ve already seen how Chris, from PSA and Martin, with more accolades than an honour wall, had the genesis of a great idea.

Martin explains, ‘What we did is to basically take the original shape and just put a sort of wedge in between the middle. It’s a bit more complicated than that, but the principle was adding a flat underwater shape, because we knew from the newer boats that it doesn’t do any harm. With the first Capricorn, the boat was slightly rounder and narrower, so the easiest thing to do was to just add a flat part in the middle, along the centre line, and that is what we did.’

‘Another key change was to increase the freeboard a bit, mainly in the rear beam. The main beam basically stayed where it was but with the rear beam, we increased the height by about 60mm. This is to account for the fact that in strong winds and choppy conditions, the original rear beam hit the waves when you are sailing downwind. That is quite uncomfortable, as it really slows the boat down and can even lead to capsize, because if the rear beam hits a wave and you are at full speed then you really get a sort of shock. The guy on the trapeze may lose balance and then you capsize.’

‘Now with these modifications, it means more volume overall and more freeboard at the back. You can push the boat out much harder than before. Chris tells me that with the new boat you can really go hard downwind and it seems upwind it’s full of speed. Overall, it seems the modifications were quite successful’, commented Martin.

‘I have a huge passion for this class. I’ve sailed every type of F18 and the Capricorn is by far the quickest. It just needed some work to sort out its performance downwind, as it was too hard to sail. Martin and I have taken the original boat, kept the same look, spent a long time on the drawing board (i.e. computer) developing the modifications and it’s now a bigger, faster boat’, said Chris.

‘The new Capricorn flies and it goes better upwind, too. There are a whole heap of technical changes we have made to it, especially in terms of the design, location and construction of all the foils. For instance, the rudders are underneath the hulls and we have two-metre long, solid carbon centreboards, which have been moved further for’ard, the beam’s come further aft and the whole geometry of the boat has changed.’

‘From about 10 metres away, the boat’s profile looks like that of the original Capricorn, but it is wider and there is a lot more volume up for’ard. So much so that you can nearly make it plane up wind’, said Chris.

That’s all wonderful, but if you race a class with a box rule, then you either have to compromise or get creative to meet certain key elements, such as minimum dry weight, which for the F18 is 180 kilograms. Compromising can get dangerous, but creative can allow you to build the proverbial better mousetrap. It would appear that with the Capricorn, the latter has served as the guiding principle.

We’ll be back with just what Martin and Chris have done with the new Capricorn and why their combined creative talents have created a perfect F18 cat. One that can be sailed far easier and still be very dangerous to the scoreboard, as their very impressive results showed on the weekend at the NSW F18 titles on Botany Bay have showed.




by John Curnow

F18 the Hot new Capricorn (Part II)

1:29 PM Sun 4 Nov 2012
In Part One, we saw how multihull designer Martin Fischer and PSA's Chris Caldecoat had set out to build a better mousetrap for the F18 cat class. Not only was the it perfect pairing of talents, but the result would seem to be pretty perfect, too - Speed, strength and agility. Now just like the larger of their feline counterparts, these are somewhat mandatory prerequisites for a high speed, twin-hulled sailing machine.

Chris commented, ‘When we started out, we were thinking that the new boat should be a bit like Henry Ford’s early cars and borrow parts from all over the place. Early on, the feedback was that customers were going to want it to race, full tilt boogie, straight out of the box. So we’ve spent the money and built a better product.’

‘If you add volume and size, you do get weight, so we had to look at the vessel from a holistic point of view and find the areas where there was the potential to get some of the mass back. There are new sails and a new mast section on which to carry them. The result is an overall weight saving. So too, we have hollow beams, which whilst being bigger are stronger than before, are now also lighter.’

Interestingly, the early craft had hulls made from 6mm core and they are now 12mm, which prompted Chris to say, ‘They are so stiff, it’s not funny!’

Martin went on to explain some of the elements in greater detail, ‘Chris has worked a lot on the structure of the vessel and we did make a few, but very distinct changes. That new section we designed for the beams is much bigger and stiffer. It’s very important to have a stiff platform and Chris also did lots of testing on the way the fibre was laid up for the hulls, with the result being an extremely stiff platform.’

‘The same principles apply to the daggerboards, which Chris built in plain carbon with a press, which allows for much higher pressure than you get with a normal baking system. As a result, they can be long, don’t break, are very stiff and we can even make them thinner. Right now, they are the thinnest in the class, to my knowledge, which is an advantage in terms of drag.’

‘There is also a complete new rudder system. The rudder blades are the same as on the Phantom, which is also a new boat that I designed and just won the Worlds some six weeks ago. The rudder heads come from England and are really very nice’, commented Martin.

‘We also worked quite a bit on the so-called, Ackerman effect. With a catamaran, when you go around a corner, the radius of the inner hull is smaller than the radius of the outer hull and therefore the angle of the rudders has to be different, just like on a car. We ran a detailed analysis on that and found that the setup for the rudders could be improved. According to the sailors who’ve tried these new rudders, the boat tacks much better now’, explained Martin.

‘Speed through a tack is critical, especially racing at a World Championship with 90 boats in the fleet. It is absolutely crucial to have good tacking capabilities.’

Having designed, sailed and observed many of the cats out there, how does Martin feel the new Capricorn compares with another of his creations, the Wild Cat? ‘The Wild Cat is extremely quick in light to moderate conditions, say up to 15 knots of wind, but if it is blowing 20 knots or more, then downwind it is an extremely difficult boat to sail well. It can be sailed quickly, but it is very difficult, especially for the bare away at the top mark, as the tend to nose dive.’

‘The level of design today in the F18 Class is such that you can no longer design a boat that is quicker in all conditions. You have to make a choice and we made the choice to have a boat that was a bit more taut in stronger winds.’

‘The new boat is much easier to sail, so you’ll be able to maintain a higher average speed, whilst taking fewer risks and on average, that all pays dividends. I reckon it will be the better all-round boat. It might be that in the very light stuff it won’t be the quickest boat, but it will be much easier to handle than the Wild Cat. The racing will tell all.’

‘You’ll be less likely to see the new Capricorn doing wild things at the bare away and we saw a massive example of how that can come very unstuck, just recently with the Oracle incident. Of course the top crews in F18's can manage the Wild Cat, no problem, but it is difficult. With the Wild Cat you are much more on the edge than with the new Capricorn ’, Martin finished by saying.

There are four or five pre-production Capricorn in circulation at the moment and PSA is open to hearing from some local sailors that want to get involved with the new Capricorn and help push the development along. They’ll be happy for that, as they are keen to get the tweaks done and move to the final specification for the production vessels sometime in December, with the Australian Championships flying up quickly behind that, in January 2013.

Accordingly, Chris says, ‘We are making an open offer to come and purchase a boat and trade in/trade out with us, whilst we nail the last bits. But with our great result at the NSW F18 titles on the weekend we have already received a flood of orders’

Since 1973, Performance Sailcraft Australia has been based out of 2 Catamaran Road, Ourimbah, NSW, 2258. In those days, it was all Hobie Cats before Laser, RS and the Byte CII became the mainstays. The Capricorn 2 has been the first cat to leave Catamaran Road in around 25 years, and yes, the PSA team are pretty happy about that.

‘For this part of the world, we’ll sell and support the new Capricorn directly out of this factory, with the PSA trucks and trailers providing regatta support. We are a production boat facility and this vessel very much fits our company ethos. In full flight, we make five Lasers a day. With the new Capricorn, the team have been able to tinker and work away at improvements, which is something you obviously cannot do with our other craft, so it has brought a renewed joy to the factory floor.’

European and US distribution agreements are already in place and they hope to sell very significant numbers in both those markets.

Martin concluded by saying, ‘I am really happy that Chris has launched this project. I am really hoping that he will reach the top and I am optimistic about that actually happening.’

Given the recent 1, 2, 3 result at the weekends F18 NSW State Championships, (second place was an earlier Capricorn with the latest appendage upgrades) you’d have to think that they are being guarded with their enthusiasm.

That Chris actually took out the title certainly augurs well for both he and the craft itself.

Ultimately, you get the notion that Martin is so very perfect for cats, which would be just like many of his fellow countrymen.

Now in conjunction with Chris Caldecoat’s dedication to the F18 box rule and being out on the water, it’s more than a perfect match, so we expect this cat continue will continue to get the winners hat.

To get a further appreciation of the new Capricorn, go to www.capricornsailing.com




by John Curnow

Rich, good luck with the new ride.

Not trying to bash and I am all for more boats, just though it strange that you would ask a question here, where my view of the responses was such that you then went and did the polar opposite.

Local availability and support being the most common theme - kind of not the thing for a first boat or a builder across the globe.
Proven design - while they may have done some things, 1 look at the bow in the picture and the biggest issue with the hull shape on the original cap is still obviously there.

Must have gotten a really good deal.

What was posted here was just some of the responses I got. I got quite a few that didn't want to talk in a public forum.This was not an easy choice by any means as I have been shopping since last year.

Yes it is the same bow but with more volume. The hulls are bigger, 20mm wider from about 1.5m in from bow.