Judging by those giant blue/black flags, I'd say they're official. Most likely stake boats, possibly VIP boats. Why they were inside the boundary can be a variety of reasons.

Mike

The forum now only lets you quote four deep...

You indicated that you think ETNZ is faster than Oracle...hence "Unless there has been some SERIOUS sandbagging on the part of Oracle, I agree" in response to John's stated belief that ETNZ will take the whole thing. This indicated that you believe Oracle has shown to be slower than ETNZ. I'm just trying to figure out what you are basing that belief on because I haven't seen anything indicating how fast Oracle is or isn't.

This x 1000

Until they line up together, we'll never know. As much as people say that ETNZ has it all figured out, they seemed to have some problems maintaining foiling in 18 knots of breeze yesterday. Sure their gybes are foiling but so are Oracles' now.

Fact of the matter is that its anyone's guess who is faster up until the race is run. I'm very much hoping that all these ETNZ fans who are all "box it up now" are eating crow come September.

Jake, I thought you'd been watching all the videos, guess not. As far as the quote thing ,you're a smart guy I'm sure you can figure something out.Like this...

Then again,If you're just looking for a pissing match, we should probably discuss politics.


Tad, I'm rooting for oracle, but don't have a good feeling about it. Although they played the last D.O.G. race very close to their chest, I truly hope this is the same case and they breakout a monumental butt whoopin'.

Geesh, man... all I did was ask you why you think Oracle is slow. I just don't think that subjectively evaluating videos is much of a measurement system. Heck, I thought LR would have had something for NZ with all the training they've had together (looked fast?) but clearly they're not in the same league.

USA 17 looks lighter and like it has less aero drag to me.
http://youtu.be/W8AoLoijHz0?t=3m57s

Bows are definitely smaller for less weight and less aero drag ,but it also appears that the tradeoff is lack of stability. Most of the videos I've seen('cause that's all we've got to go by) shows Oracle's foiling is comparable to a baby giraffe learning how to walk, pretty wobbly and erratic, which as you know changes foil angle and increases drag, decreasing speed. Will the weight gain and reduced aero drag make up for it? I doubt it. It has gotten better with more practice and I hope we're not seeing the best for Oracle and the matches sake.They still have plenty of time, but at this point I'd venture they are still playing catch up.
ETNZ on the other hand has, for the most part, mastered horizontally stable foiling.Maximizing their efficiency. You also need to remember no ones designs (except ETNZ) appeared to take full foiling into account until ETNZ did it.

Not sure if you were watching the same race I was... but ETNZ was having their fair share of difficulty staying up on foils.

They certainly looked like supermen compared to LR - but they are not without fault.

I believe the commentators ( term used loosely) said the conditions/ windspeed were up and down. They'll all suffer in puffiness, nature of the beast. Highest reported breeze of the day was during LR's finish.

"Percy is back at the Bay and back at work with the Swedish team, Artemis. But he admits that it is, in many ways, the last place he wants to be. . .

There are 140 people working on Artemis and I owe it to them and their families as well, but I'm struggling to muster the competitive spirit I used to have in abundance."

I held Bart as they tried to save him ... I just wish it had been me who died, not him

Podcast Episode 17- ETNZ's Ray Davies & Dean Barker, Luna Rossa's Max Sirena & Chris Draper

More of what was in the podcast if you want to read it here.

Me, too, Tad. While I have my opinion about NZL, don't mistake that for a lack of desire to watch the Cup unfold. It was sailors on the couch at my house for the race, and even my kid thought it was pretty exciting. I want to see it all, but my bet is out there.

Oracle USA has some tricks up their sleeve - let us hope that seamanship rules the day.

Not sure what small bows have to do with stable foiling. You must not have seen the video with RC explaining that ETNZ started their foiling program with more stable moving to less stable. Oracle started with a less stable and have moved to a more stable program. Two different ways to get to a similar point. RC also said that stable isn't necessarily the fastest set up. This Regatta should be won by the fastest boat.

The guy from Sail World NZ, John Navas (I think I have his name right) has been filming much of the practice. He has watched the boats more than most and has commented that while ETNZ is fast, at times US-17 was noticeably faster.

I certainly haven't kept up with this iteration as much as I have in the past - but I'm not sold that Oracle didn't originally intend to foil. The rule was written "to discourage" foiling but I think there was room purposely fitted in for it to happen...though it wouldn't be easy. NZ certainly figured it out and I think it's practically a forgone conclusion that NZ and Oracle will meet in the challenge. Also don't discount the fact that Oracle is still designing/developing and has the advantage of measured data of the challengers to work from (i.e., sensors and data transponders that were written into the rule and are available for download by anyone on the internet!)

Regarding yesterday's race, LR talks about how boat handling cost them that time - but the speed indicators between the two boats tell a different story. There was constantly 1 or 2 knots difference in boats speed up and downwind. LR has some catching up to do but at least they have a "preliminary" race series to get it improved.

It will certainly be interesting to see Artemis in the mix but they've not borrowed technology from Oracle anywhere close to the amount that LR borrowed from TNZ....heck, Artemis' first boat didn't even foil. They won't be much of a measure for Oracle's performance and it's hard to imagine them being much of a factor in the LV cup.

I just hope we get to see some back and forth racing - it's going to be pretty boring to watch after a while if it's a one boat show and we're going to lose the public after the impression of the advanced technology wears off.

Look into the latest iteration of A cats if you doubt me. More stability/buoyancy brings on foiling faster. If you look at side shots of ETNZ and Oracle, Etnz's version of less volume is still WAY more than Oracle's. This pic was first version, I believe, but you get the idea. My A cat was designed by one of Oracle's lead designers, Dirk Kramers, so believe me when I say, I hope they win, I mean it.

Wow, that's tough to read...

Mike

Use Google translate if your browser doesn't do it automatically.
http://chevaliertaglang.blogspot.fr/2013/06/scoop-les-ac72-devoiles.html

so, looking at Saturday's 2-boat race, did LR lose more ground on the upwind side of the course than downwind? It seemed that way to me, even though I did note (as Jake pointed out) that there was consistent speed deltas of 1-2 knots.

Looked like LR had more trouble keeping a steady ride-height, and coming back up to speed after tacking uphill. Not much, mind you, but when you're going 20 kts up and 40 kts down a few extra seconds building speed costs you dearly.

I'm wondering how all this race time on water is helping ENTZ perfect their seamanship. Is US-17 limited in their 2-boat testing/training time? Will this eventually hurt them in boathandling skill?

Not only was NZ faster but they were sailing several degrees higher upwind, as stated in the interview.

I can only imagine how much the wing design comes into effect here. I bet it's a huge part of the difference. We know Oracle has put a lot into their wing designs so hopefully they're at least on par here.