| Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#263143 09/03/13 05:08 PM 09/03/13 05:08 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,969 brucat
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Carpal Tunnel
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,969 | Sing it with me:
"The wheels on the bus go falling off, falling off, falling off. The wheels on the bus go falling off, now we're heading (back) Down Under..."
And this, kids, is why you always protest anything you can at this level. Who cares what people think of you later?
Mike
Last edited by brucat; 09/03/13 05:10 PM.
| | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Mark Schneider]
#263144 09/03/13 05:09 PM 09/03/13 05:09 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | no.... it gives NZL two practice races to try out their stuff against Oracles best shot. If they bank a win.... they are on their way 1 to zip... if NZL loses.... the score remains... zero zero.
Clever penalty! I must have missed something while I was in Dubai. Last I heard, the "Issue" was about 5lbs. and a center post that was 7mm too long...on one of Oracle's AC45 boats? And for that, they are going to be penalized two points, in the AC 72 Regatta?? Or am I mixing two completely different infractions together?
Blade F16 #777
| | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Timbo]
#263145 09/03/13 05:20 PM 09/03/13 05:20 PM |
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine ThunderMuffin
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Posts: 3,655 Portland, Maine | no.... it gives NZL two practice races to try out their stuff against Oracles best shot. If they bank a win.... they are on their way 1 to zip... if NZL loses.... the score remains... zero zero.
Clever penalty! I must have missed something while I was in Dubai. Last I heard, the "Issue" was about 5lbs. and a center post that was 7mm too long...on one of Oracle's AC45 boats? And for that, they are going to be penalized two points, in the AC 72 Regatta?? Or am I mixing two completely different infractions together? You've got the gist of it. ETNZ claims that this change resulted in something like a 15% better pointing ability and an 8% tighter jib luff or other such nonsense. | | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: brucat]
#263153 09/03/13 05:52 PM 09/03/13 05:52 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | It's not (ever) about who's right or wrong, it's about what you can prove in court...
Mike I wonder if there is a path for appeal or was this absolute?
Jake Kohl | | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Jake]
#263154 09/03/13 06:05 PM 09/03/13 06:05 PM |
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA Isotope235
old hand
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old hand
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 807 Hillsborough, NC USA | I wonder if there is a path for appeal or was this absolute? The decision of a properly constituted international jury cannot be appealed. See RRS 70.5. There might be further penalties yet to come. When a jury imposes a penalty under Rule 69, it must promptly report doing so to the national authority (and in this case, ISAF). US Sailing and ISAF may take further action against the penalized sailors. Regards, Eric
Last edited by Isotope42; 09/03/13 06:16 PM.
| | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Timbo]
#263155 09/03/13 06:09 PM 09/03/13 06:09 PM |
Joined: Jun 2001 Posts: 12,310 South Carolina Jake
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Posts: 12,310 South Carolina | no.... it gives NZL two practice races to try out their stuff against Oracles best shot. If they bank a win.... they are on their way 1 to zip... if NZL loses.... the score remains... zero zero.
Clever penalty! I must have missed something while I was in Dubai. Last I heard, the "Issue" was about 5lbs. and a center post that was 7mm too long...on one of Oracle's AC45 boats? And for that, they are going to be penalized two points, in the AC 72 Regatta?? Or am I mixing two completely different infractions together? There is a clause in the cup rules that gives the jury the ability to penalize for conduct that tarnishes the image of the cup. This was ironically put in place by Oracle to keep Grant Dalton (ETNZ) from publicly talking badly about the cup as he was prone to do in the past. ETNZ's protest argued that the modifications to the AC45 by Oracle was negative publicity and that allowed the penalty to carry beyond the withdrawal Oracle had already made from all previous AC45 events. That's why the penalty has carried over to the 72s.
Jake Kohl | | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#263157 09/03/13 06:26 PM 09/03/13 06:26 PM |
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,490 On the Water P.M. OP
Pooh-Bah
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OP
Pooh-Bah
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490 On the Water | Think L.E. knew? Think he's PISSED?
Philip USA #1006 | | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#263159 09/03/13 06:35 PM 09/03/13 06:35 PM |
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 2,490 On the Water P.M. OP
Pooh-Bah
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,490 On the Water | Forgot to post this notice earlier. JN116
Philip USA #1006 | | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: Isotope235]
#263161 09/03/13 07:20 PM 09/03/13 07:20 PM |
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI mbounds
Pooh-Bah
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Posts: 1,884 Detroit, MI | I wonder if there is a path for appeal or was this absolute? The decision of a properly constituted international jury cannot be appealed. See RRS 70.5. There might be further penalties yet to come. When a jury imposes a penalty under Rule 69, it must promptly report doing so to the national authority (and in this case, ISAF). US Sailing and ISAF may take further action against the penalized sailors. Regards, Eric None of the sailors affected were US; their respective MNAs have been notified as noted in the jury decision. US Sailing is not involved with this one. | | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#263164 09/03/13 11:09 PM 09/03/13 11:09 PM |
Joined: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,969 brucat
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Posts: 3,969 | IJ decisions cannot be appealed, but can be subject to a request for redress or request to re-open (I've witnessed a full week of hearings over one incident). I wouldn't expect to see that in this case, but you never know.
I will never, ever accept that no one else knew. There is just no way that that happens because of a trimmer, without the skipper knowing. There's no way it happens to three boats without multiple skippers knowing.
While in some ways, the whole thing has been blown out of proportion (the changes probably didn't matter for performance, and it was a regatta that absolutely didn't matter except for bragging rights); if the jury was going to take the time to get this serious, and use the language that they did ("inconceivable" that no one else knew), they really caved by not seeing this through to the top.
Mike | | | Re: AC72 Oracle Team USA Spaceship has landed
[Re: P.M.]
#263165 09/03/13 11:36 PM 09/03/13 11:36 PM |
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. Timbo
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Posts: 6,049 Sebring, Florida. | This is getting beyond "Stupid"!
They should fine LE a bazillion dollars for what ever "improved performance" 5lbs. and 7mm makes to a 45' cat, but what has anything done to boats in the 45' regatta, months ago, got to do with the America's Cup Regatta, btw, held in completely different boats??
And have any of these -tools- measured the two AC 72 boats prior to the start of the AC regatta?
Or are they (again) going to wait until it's over?
Yet they wonder why nobody watches this crap....
Blade F16 #777
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